Archangel

I presume you missed the words ''on sentimental grounds'' and why is Coppell a s***house - I presume that this may have something to his utd connection or have i missed something Redknapp is a bit of a blert granted and not everyones cuppa but he does appear to get alot out of his players - which does appear to be an issue with some here

A new style Rafa would be no 1 Mourinho would be a safe otion (he's not a c*** he's just a very naughty boy) but another control freak which might be partly the problem we currently have Ramos is an interesting suggestion to keep the spanish connection but unlikely Phil Scolari? to keep up with the championship manager aspect of the thread Harry Redknapp - risky but you really have to admire his record and his eye for the right player for his teams Steve Coppell would be another if you felt inclined to back a developing English talent One thing, lets steer clear of players/ex-players on sentimental grounds

he also decides on the formation and the tactics we use against the teams we face I'd have more sympathy for the ''blame the players'' arguement if it wasn't for the fact that the manager has got a reputation for planning and controlling everything in meticulous detail. Now sometimes it works but some of our more dysfunctional moments are more down to confusion than a lack of effort or commitment from the players I dont think there are individuals who do themselves justice but if your looking at constant displays of disjointed erratic performances at some point you have to start pointing the finger at the common denominator which is the manager. Benitez needs to loosen up and change his style before its too late

If i was to decide, as an overview objectives would be One more season One more striker 15 - 20 m range No other changes unless cash neutral (Crouch for Johnson say) No more excuses accepted about owners, fixture congestion, tiredness etc etc Top four position in January maximum 5 points behind top or he goes Top four position in May maximum 5 points behind top - preferably better than in January Good cup runs - better consistency in team performance Benitez can do this, he is good enough but to do it I think he must start to change one or two things which seem to be his fundamental philosophy and thats why i think that maybe an immediate change of manager would be a better option because he isnt going to change and its not working at this club

I'm f***ed off with this

we have progressed ? frankly I'm not so sure We have had tremendous success in the champions league and I'd thank Benitez for that. but are we a better team or was that the hand of fate. certainly its kind of hard to argue that we were the best in Europe when we got the trophy with the likes of traore and biscan in the side. The telling point in all of this is having had that success were we able to kick on and improve in the league under Benitez and the answer would apparently be not. Not this season, not last season and not the one before even though the quality of the squad has improved Its a tougher business now and the likes of Everton, City, Spurs, Villa and even Newcastle (potentially) will challenge. Success in cups from yesteryear is not going to decide a future going forward and as far as thats concerned Benitez has not delivered for several seasons - cant blame the americans for that Sentimentally I say that he deserves one more season, but logically I think it would be better for all parties if he left now. Is this the liverpool way, no, but that was then and this is now and maybe the Liverpool way is one of the reasons we find ourselves in our current predicament

Fair point, but surely success in the premier league is the real barometer of a teams (and managers) performance

Thanks for that. It was a decent and honest response by Benitez. He's a good man albeit fallible at times

I think Kraft would be a breath of fresh air, must admit to being impressed with what I've seen and heard from him, though judging by his recent comments I wouldn't expect him to be seen at Anfield anytime soon and neither do I see him being interested in a partnership with Hicks I too think we'll survive the Texan if we have to. He knows he'll have to keep the club in good condition if he is going to realise that 1bn valuation and that will inevitably involve some of his own investment during the build. No prospective buyer is going to pay that sum for a club with a half filled stadium week in week out.

Not something which has been discussed much. We'd be financially more secure I guess, probably more professionally run, though that wouldn't b e difficult, but not quite a match made in heaven as some would have us believe. Having said all that, after the Hicks and Gillett affair probably the least worst option for the Club

Get rid of Hicks by bankrupting the club. Thats a bit like getting rid of a headache by blowing your brains out Could you give me a plan B?

Thought so....kick out Gillett sell the club in 5yrs time and take all the profits he thinks he can make The fact that he's out of his depth in key area's and living in cloud cuckoo land about premiership finances doesn't seem to be a problem to him

Please forgive me for this and its nothing personal but I think your view of the Liverpool Way is hopelessly idealistic and doubt if it has ever really existed in those terms as far as the boardroom was concerned in anycase. I come at this from a very pragmatic point of view. I'm aware that some of my posts maybe incorrectly interpreted as being pro Hicks and Gillett but thats not the case. However I'm not comfortable with the apparent mantra that implies that these pair are responsible for destroying this mythical idea. As I've previously mentioned, if there ever really was a meaningful expression of TLW it was found in the concept of management from the boot room and we abandoned that on the watch of the previous owner not the current ones when we appointed Houllier and then Benitez. That was the real day TLW died maybe even before that following Joe Fagan's departure I know that view doesn't fit the agenda and probably upsets the forum cognescenti but if youre going to construct a case for criticising the Americans, I think it should be on firmer grounds. They maybe the new heathens but this over sentimental revisionist view of the club doesn't do it for me. Unfortunately I suspect we are stuck with Hicks, he strikes me as being a particularly obstinate character, I hope I'm wrong but I'm not carried away with any particular enthusiasm that DIC will be anymore sympathetic. We are in a new world and I think we need to face up to the new order. Creating a fans backlash by perpetuating these emotional grievances will fall on deaf ears as far as the businessmen are concerned but could create a general negativity around the Club which will make us an unattractive prospect to other players and agents and demotivate the players we have at the club already. That at least is what concerns me.

Except that the 'Liverpool Way' died when they got rid of the boot room

and resting on your laurels is another

Unless he publicly speaks out about the mess and the refinancing shenanigans he is still equally culpable I dont like what this pair have done to my club, I'm happy to given them a chance to prove they have the clubs interest at heart but they have not started well I'm not taken in by a few smiles and humble platitudes, Hicks gets the abuse because he's obviously a straight talker, Gillett I'm not so sure of

Does your hyperbole have no limits How do you extrapolate that she is accusing the whole city as being drunks and losers I may be being thick but I got the impression she was referring to the fans who took part in the protest not the people of Liverpool in general You accuse her of lieing yet your not exactly being upfront and honest yourself. I agree with Jonshar, Its a piece for domestic (Texan) consumption. Take it on the chin and ignore otherwise we'll look like a bunch of hypersensitive old women

Well the points angle is a red herring, yes its technically true but the reason is more down to the fact that there is an increasing gap within the top league because of increasing revenues. In short the top four are picking up more points now because the gap between them and the rest of the league widened in that period. Neither do I accept that success in Europe proves that Benitez is a tactical genius, by his own admission, the reversal of our fortunes in Istanbul was principly derived from circumstance rather than by design. Benitez is intelligent, tactically aware perhaps but a genius placing him above others, no. He's a good manager (I keep saying this) but he is stubborn, maybe a stubborness which led to losing his friend and closest advisor He needs to rethink, we cant just keep on as we are in the hope that it will all come good, thats what many on here seem to be thinking when they suggest we should just back the manager come what may. Thats not going to work. Benitez is intelligent and it is a strong squad but a radical change in direction is required or else its going to be the same again. Its not just been poor for 3 months we havent been competitive in the league since Houllier left. Benitez has it, he has to convince himself he has it

Actually I think the whole article is absolute c**k, absolute delusional c**k Benitez is not a tactical genius, comparisons with Shankly and Paisley are completely irrelevant and somewhat bizarre, and the idea that we as supporters should not question the performance of the manager is a sort of superfan fascism that resolves absolutely nothing Funnily enough I think that Benitez's response to the pressures of the next month or so will define how good a manager he really is. I've got admiration for him in that he hasn't walked out on us which would be the easier option and i think he really loves the club but he needs to change, he cant afford to lose the team as well as the owners or else he wont survive Rotating players and expecting them to play different roles is fine in theory, if it works it works, but there comes a time when stubborness to accept that something isnt working becomes a liability. I've said before, I think Rafa needs to accept that he must change Bascombe is the messenger, just because its not the sort of delusional praise some want to hear its no reason to abuse him

Rafa is in a very difficult position but if he is to keep his job I really think its he who needs to change radically not necessarily the squad He will get us fourth this year and champions league qualification so hopefully that may give him some breathing space there is still time

You're right of course but this has gone well beyond rational arguement. Hicks views this as an investment opportunity and this rather than sentiment is what is driving this whole project and why he is unlikely to sell out come hell or highwater. I think the fans of the club would do better to accept the new reality rather than pursue an entirely destructive agenda against the current owners. I doubt Hicks will listen, I doubt he'll care, and the collective unrest will only create a negastive atmosphere around the place which wont help the players or the team We are now a business, we have to be successful to survive, we wont be able to carry passengers and continual underperformance will damage the long term prospects of the future. Under the old regieme success was an aspiration, its now an absolute necessity. Players and Coaching Staff take note - i would add Owners but unfortunately they are fairly fireproofed and could walk away from any wreckage without a scratch. i dont like it, in fact I hate it, but unless someone is prepared to step in and pay well over the odds for the Club no amount of s*** is going to change the reality

You see thats a whole set of assumptions about Hicks which you really couldn't substantiate one way or another, The relationship obviously broke down at some point but why and whose fault it was we'll never know for certain Framkly I'm sick of reading half baked hypothesis of whats going on when the actual fact of it all is that know one really knows apart from titbits we get from so called insiders whose own knowledge is at best second hand and from equally unsubstantiated sources who may have their own agendas Playing devils advocate for a minute maybe Benitez felt he could blag the owners into spending more by putting pressure on them with his public outbursts after Athens, perhaps that didnt go down well, maybe that started the rift. There's been a power struggle behind the scenes and Benitez has not been slow in using the media directly and indirectly. Then there was the infamous press conferance, rumours circulating about interest from Bayern and all that. Perhaps Hicks was genuine about the insurance policy - who really knows - who has been trying to undermine who Ok so thats all speculation too but the point I'm trying to make is that whats going on is not obvious, the only thing which is obvious is there are alot of real issues about the club which are being buried under the storm around the financing deal by fans whose loyalty is without doubt but who appear to have switched reality off I think the owners have f***ed up on several issues, I think they've been economical with the truth, I think they are out of their depth at times, but funnily enough those are exactly the same accusations I could put at the managers door. I'm happy to give Benitez the benefit of another year to put things right as much as I'm happy to give the owners more time to prove they can benefit this club. In some respects we have made progress under them, there are problems and concerns but as they actually hold all the cards I don't actually see much point in creating a bigger storm than is necessary

There is another owner in the partnership y'know more black propaganda

What a way to run a f***ing club Complete bloody confusion