Andythered

Is it me or do they all have giraffe like necks?

Eh? I dont think we lost any game on purpose.

Watching on the internet. Dean Saunders is commentating. Seems to think it is a two legged tie and we are 2-0 up. Bizarre.

Anny - sorry I disagree. He did the right thing in going. End of. No need to slate him further. he put in 20 years service. A lot of the punters on here have been going to games for less time. He cocked up and resigned. No need to slate him. He will regret it enough himself. What do you want? Blood?

Daft thing to do either off or on the record. Should have known better. Been on the board since 1985. Has probably given a lot, put in a lot of effort behind the scenes. A big shame. No need for the abuse that nomarks on here are dishing out.

Hilarious article in today's Guardian about how Chelsea should NOW be worried about Gudjohnson because he dives all the time. Not news to our Xabi: Ex-Chelsea player in diving b*****d shock

Not many commentators know who Sibelius is, never mind wittily quote him and use his music as a metaphor for the match.

Doesn't the criticism come as part of the 20/30k a week + a*** being wiped package. Get a grip.

Give Rafa as long as he wants. Lock the dicks who say a year in the club shop and set fire to it.

Rather play out of position than be a boring, one dimensional player who was f***ing injured for years. c***.

Crouch was the only one to leave his foot in. Disgusted at the lack of fire from our players. We should be getting into that lot even when we are off form.

Anyone why no sponser logo on out shirts. Couldnt quite make out what they said on Chinese tv.

Make it an amateur sport as opposed to being run by amateurs.

How come Arsenal are in the G14 never mind chairing it? What have they won in Europe?

I used to watch games at Flanagans in Bethesda. Good atmosphere. Psychotic barman from belfast.

Decent captains get the team working after a decision like that. We should have piled in all over the place, given the officials tonnes of s***. All we had was Pepe waving an imaginary flag. f***ing pathetic. Where is the passion.

Thanks. Think I will watch it online and look into a viasat subscription for the longer term.

Tonight's game is not on normal tv. It is not on CANAL+. The Sports Academy are showing some some team called Barcalona. I want to fire-bomb the "Sport Pub Chelsea" never mind go in it. Anyone got an idea where I can watch tonights game? Preferably in a cosy alehouse but if not online? Thanks

Some replies to the artcile on rotation: steved September 26, 2006 01:20 AM Aol/usa Not sure how muich you've watched Liverpool or particularly know about Benitez, but it's a pretty asinine view of his policy of keeping players fresh for a full 60-odd games, and reeks of jumping on the "tinkerman" bandwagon so favoured by many of those employed to write commentary pieces. It's the sort of view that used to crop up in the Madrid and Barcelona press as a running joke until to their chagrin Benitez's Valencia side stayed on the strongest to take their first league title in 31 years, and then repeated that performance two years later also adding a UEFA Cup. And Barcelona do rotate, frequently. Comparing Aston Villa to Liverpool is pretty worthless given the short time scale we're talking about (6 games) and the fewer playing commitments undertaken by their players - not as many internationals to be played during through the season and very little World Cup hangover to contend with, no extended Champions League campaign, little expectation in the Cups. Probably looking at 25 games less for their top players compared to Liverpool. You talk about the need for a settled back four and use it as a stick to beat Benitez with yet this is something he has pursued - last season you could write down the names of Reina, Finnan, Carragher, Hyypia and Riise without fail, with the few exceptions being when Riise was required to play left midfield due to a lack of options in the squad. This season, injuries to Riise (Sheff Utd and Everton) and Carragher have necessitated changes, plus the need to integrate the promising Agger as first choice ahead of the ageing Hyypia. It's not tinkering for tinkering's sake as implied. And was it really an underachievement to finish with 83 points in the league last year? It might more accurately be said that Benz led his players to their highest points total since the club last win the league title. [Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] YippyHK September 26, 2006 01:37 AM Bang on steved ... [Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] rumagin September 26, 2006 01:59 AM Reston/usa I agree with Steved too. R. Williams isn't too smart and always goes after the genric arguments. blah. [Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] rafaelridzuan September 26, 2006 02:45 AM spot on steved.... r williams should stop writing for lack of accuracy and substance etc etc etc [Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] MaceTheAce September 26, 2006 03:09 AM Good rebuttal SteveD, It is not possible for top players to play almost every game, particularly when going for 3 or 4 competitions, plus international games. Even if they can do it physically, they can't mentally. What's the point of having these huge squads if you can't rest your top players. Take the example of Lampard who has played almost every Chelsea game for the past 2 years. If ever a player has lost his edge and looks stale he is it. This is a discussion that should be held in April when we see who is still going strong for trophies. I fancy Benitez's approach will be paying dividends then. [Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] ianx66 September 26, 2006 03:34 AM Chiyoda/jpn Blimey that's a sloppy piece of work, maybe Steved should be working for the Grauniad instead. [Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] confuciusfrog September 26, 2006 03:40 AM was going to say almost exactly what you said, SteveD, but by the end of reading his Williams piece was not even going to give it the effort. Thanks for saying everything so clearly and succinctly. im sick of the Guardian's attitude on so many issues football-related. what would be an interesting statisitc is to compare the top four, over the same time period, to see how many times they did / didnt change the lineup. im willing to bet that none of them had more than five games in a row unchanged, for WHATEVER reasons. its easy to say that such changes are the reason we havent won the league, but thats disrespectful of Chelsea and Manu and Arsenal (and even Everton two years ago), who all have played well and earned their achievements. Personally id have thought Liverpool fans would be well pleased to have the Champions League and FA Cup in consecutive years, and all the indicators seem to show that they are on course to challenge effectively with ManU and Chelsea and Arsenal for the League for the next two seasons at least. One other point. Is a dynasty made or lost? Did Man U oust Liverpool in the late 80's or did Liverpool just take their foot off the gas? Have Manu given their dominance to Chelsea or was it snatched from them? Theres always elements of both. Personally, given Chelsea's millions, ManU's historic quality, Arsenal's attitide towards style and Liverpool's gatheirng strength and desire, i think this year will be one of the most entertaining season's we've had in years. there are four other teams that can realistically have a strong influence on the title, and its as open as it has been for years. After Arsenal had an unbeaten season people seem to think that thats the only way to show youre the best. As a side analogy, id rather have a 100m race where all 8 are below 10 seconds than one or two are 9.71 and the others are all 10.1 . I wish you cyncial writers would just act responsibly with the power you have than keep telling people this kind of time-wasting drivel. [Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] treffer September 26, 2006 04:02 AM Beijing/chn Ofcourse you can discuss the rotation, but please come up with better arguments. Did you really think this well over before you wrote this ? Come on ! Steved is leading 10 to nil. Better to use arguments like for instance the mental consequence for the players and the team. The restless situation for the team, the coach want to keep all players as his friend etc etc. Anyway no hard feeling further. [Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] kittyhawk74 September 26, 2006 04:53 AM No disrespect to Nottingham Forest, as yourself already said it, it was 1959 and those days football was less demanding and training were less taxing. It goes with injuries as well hence, you just can't compared scenarios from those days to today. If you stick with the same team and play the whole season and you don't change your style and tactics with various suitable players for different opponents, then why bother having managers for all the teams? There is nothing there to manage anymore. Just wonder all you so called football writers are still living in caves? You have no rights to judge and if you think you are so good, you should be managing the Man Utds, the Chelseas and the Liverpools and not sitting behind your stupid desk earning peanuts just writing rubbish. I think that's it, you are not good enough to be the real deal so you write thrash eveyday to fulfill your fantasies. Stop judging and start observing, that will help you write better next time. [Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] JohnMcGeechan2 September 26, 2006 05:19 AM Auckland/nzl Agree with everything said so far. SteveD, you took the words out of my mouth. Richard Williams once again proving that football fans often have a clearer understanding of the issues involved in the modern game, and that most football commentators/writers/journalists are lazy individuals who will always take the path of least resistance when peddling their fare (think Motson commentary, think Crooks post match interview). Rarely have I seen a rebuttal that so completely and accurately demolishes a lightweight and ignorant piece of writing. You know that he is being lazy when he says "Yes, Benz has led Liverpool to the European Cup during his time in England - although it might more accurately be said that his players led Benz to the trophy...". As if simply admitting up front that Benitez has won the biggest club trophy in the world, somehow "proves" his theories on Benitez's shortcomings. The comparisson with Villa was stupid enough. Villa will be looking at an outside shot at the FA cup or League cup at best, with a possibility of a Euefa spot, and that is an absoloute dream scenario for that team (and sincerely, no disrespect intended). Liverpool on the other hand are competing for the biggest prize in club footbball, looking to qualify for it again next season by being in the top 3 and are serious contenders for both domestic cups. Work out how many games that is Richard, as well as the extra games for those players that have international duties, and you can see that rotation is not the actions of a fickle man , but an absoloute necessity, sorry you don't see that. Secondly, and more obviously, there is the matter of the little outfit from SouthWest London who have completely altered the rules of the EPL. They have 2 and sometimes 3 worlds class players in every position. And they can buy more, if any team is to have any chance of wrestling the title from the bridge, they are going to have to rotate their squad. It works like this Richard, when the top 4 teams Arsenal/Liverpool/Man Utd/Chelsea play each other, on a good day any one of them could beat the other. However during one of these games (or any game come to that), an important player could pick up a knock that may rule them out of the next game, or may have expended so much energy midweek that they are physically unable to give as much in the next game. So what does the manager do ? Well one of the 4 managers can simply rest said player, and instead slot in his other 15-20m world class international that he has covering that position. So what do the other three managers do ? It's a puzzler isn't it Richard ? According to your logic it would seem that the manager should just play his "first" 11 irrespective of upcoming fixtures and their importance , and then when a player does become unavailable through injury/fatigue, presumably you would slot in whoever was available, and hope that they would perform immediately despite having spent the last 15-20 games playing in the reserves. Sometimes you get unneccesary flak Richard (I have seen that), but sometimes you simply write ignorant,irritating and more annoyingly , lazy pieces. Perhaps you just do it to see if we are still paying attention to you. We are, but our numbers are ever dwindling.... [Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] n8dogg September 26, 2006 06:06 AM Troutdale/usa God, I hate Guardian blogs. Opinionated drivel, substandard journalism, paying scant regard to the profession's unwritten laws, like "get your facts right". Does this stuff even have to go through an editor? [Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] Solarama September 26, 2006 06:21 AM London/gbr Spot on stevied. A disappointingly sloppy piece by RW, smacking of an editor seeing that statistic (of 93 games without an unchanged side) being trumpeted over the weekend and saying: "There's your piece for Tuesday morning." Why insult Benitez by saying his players won the European Cup? Isn't it always the players that win the trophies? Yes, Gerrard and Carragher were immense at times, but what about the team ethic fashioned by Benitez, which took a skint, injury-ravaged squad of Houllier underachievers to glory? And why compare Liverpool to Villa or West Ham? Why not compare them to Chelsea, Man U or Arsenal, all of whom have had to cope with several players at the World Cup and early-season international duty, as well as Champions league commitments over the course of a long and demanding season? Benitez doesn't the team wholesale from game to game unless he feels he needs to. Come May you'll see that the core of the team will be the same (Finnan, Riise, Carragher, Sissoko, Gerrard, Alonso, probably Agger & Kuyt) and the rest will rotate. He did the same at Valencia and won 2 La Ligas & a UEFA cup in 3 seasons. Just like zonal defending - which pundits and journos continue to criticise while conveniently ignoring that Liverpool conceded the fewest goals from set-pieces of any Premiership team last season - hacks and ex-pros don't seem to care if facts contradict arguments that they frankly don't understand. [Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] kiwired September 26, 2006 06:26 AM Auckland/nzl Totally agree with steved with one addition. Actually I view Rafa's 'tinkering' at half-time of taking off Steve Finnan and bringing on Hamman as critical to Liverpools victory in the CL. The notion that the players overcame Rafa to become champions is just ridiculous. [Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] ScouseHK September 26, 2006 06:34 AM The article's aim was to offer up the possibility that Liverpool would prosper with a little less tinkering from Rafa. Instead you use Martin O'Neil's Aston Villa's league position as proof that settled sides are more likely to succeed. Villa only have something like 12 first team squad members and the league season is 5 games old. You then go on to use a 15 year-old Man. United defence as further proof, then, incredibly - mention Barcelona who happen to play in the same league where Rafa's rotation policy bought Valencia 2 La Liga titles and the UEFA Cup. Mention of the two Argies at West Ham is quite simply put, irrelevant. These two have never started a game for the Hammers. Pardew didn't want them. He didn't buy them.They were dumped on him as some sort of "sweetener" from the MSI guy who is about to buy out the board at Upton Park. How the situation in east London and, indeed, any other of the points you make, has any bearing on the purpose of your article - settled first teams (picked by the manager)and the benefit to Liverpool F.C. is, quite frankly, beyond me. All in all very lazy and misinformed.

Gonzalez shows Jenas how it's done Paul Wilson at Anfield Sunday September 24, 2006 The Observer Spurs must have felt like kicking themselves all the way back to London after yet another fiasco in front of goal. Being Spurs, though, they would undoubtedly have missed the target. Two home wins in the space of four days might look like a Liverpool recovery, but despite a flattering scoreline Rafa Benitez's side are still playing a long way below their best. They looked nothing like title aspirants for a good hour of this game, when their visitors outpassed them in midfield and set up a succession of clear scoring chances." Comment: Funny how we managed to have more possesion and more shots than spurs if they dominated us for an hour. But why base reports on factual analysis eh? Liverpool could have had no complaints had they been two goals down when Mark Gonzalez broke the deadlock after 63 minutes, but it is easy to see why Spurs have gone seven hours without scoring. Their finishing is absolutely diabolical. Gonzalez should never have had the chance to put Liverpool in front. His team should have been restarting from the centre spot after a superb counter-attack by Jermain Defoe and Edgar Davids carved Liverpool open down the left and the latter's low cross past Jose Reina left an open goal at the mercy of Jermaine Jenas, yet, despite running 60 yards to support the break and get in position, the midfielder turned the ball the wrong side of the post. Liverpool came down the field and scored 38 seconds later, leaving Spurs empty-handed once again and regretting what might have been. Two down? What planet is he on. The second chance was a sitter but two. Crosses nearly connecting are two a penny. We also had chances That list was quite a long one. Ledley King set the tone in the first half by rising unchallenged to Danny Murphy's free-kick, only to miss his header when any sort of contact would have had Reina in trouble. Twice more Murphy, excellent on his Anfield return, came within a whisker of playing in first Robbie Keane then Defoe. Ten minutes from half time an exquisite pass from Keane set Jenas free on the right, where he promptly wasted a good opportunity by blazing first time into the Kop. It was not quite as culpable a miss as what followed, though if Spurs continue to treat good positions and good possession in such a cavalier fashion they will stay closer to the bottom four than the top. Liverpool supporters spent much of the game fretting that the Spurs malaise might be contagious, though in their case the reason for a blank scoreline was that chances were simply not being created. The closest they came to scoring in the first half was when Pascal Chimbonda unintentionally touched a Gonzalez corner on to his own post, then saw Jenas clear Momo Sissoko's follow-up shot. Erm, two chances mentioned here. Obviously dont count if they are Liverpool ones. Craig Bellamy did bring a save from Paul Robinson right on the stroke of the interval, otherwise the first half would have passed without a shot on target. The same player narrowly failed to get on the end of Dirk Kuyt's cross from the right early in the second half, though one could not help thinking the move might have been more productive had the roles been reversed. Bellamy and Kuyt crashing into each other when Gonzalez returned the ball from the left did little to instil confidence in the home front pairing and by the time Steven Gerrard began hoisting crosses towards Bellamy's head one could only wonder what Liverpool had been practising in training. Oh, so that is 4 chances. I thought Spurs bossed the game? Then came the match-turning moment, and although it appeared Bellamy had missed a great chance when he turned Gerrard's cross against a post from close range, Gonzalez was on hand to snaffle the rebound. That goal changed everything. Gaps appeared as Spurs began to chase the game and Liverpool duly stepped into them. Kuyt delighted the Kop with an emphatic finish after skilfully collecting Luis Garcia's through ball, taking advantage of the fact that the Spurs defence had stopped on the assumption that Gerrard would be flagged for offside, and John Arne Riise put the final gloss on proceedings with a spectacular goal from almost 30 yards in the final minute. The crowd had been urging Xabi Alonso to shoot every time he touched the ball - in all probability a few more bets had been placed on the back of his midweek success from his own half against Newcastle - but Riise is the club's original long-shot expert and Michael Dawson should have known better than to back off him. Kuyt summed up the game best, if somewhat idiosyncratically. 'They missed an open goal then we scored, and that's not so funny for Spurs,' the Dutch striker said. The managers did not disagree. 'They had their chances but once we scored we had a lot more possibilities and our tempo was better,' Benitez said. Martin Jol looked for a moment as though he might not say anything at all when reminded of Jenas's miss. Finally he sighed and admitted the game could have been very different with better finishing. 'We had three half-chances and one or two very big chances,' he said through clenched teeth. 'It was exactly the same as Manchester United.'

Never normally pay much attention to the footballer's gravy train. I suppose I should since my money pays (a very small) part of their wages. Interesting to see Henry Winter defend footballers books in 442 without being straightforward on whose book he had written. Reading what journos write about footie is like reading what political parties say about news stories. There is a lot of spin - either relationships with players are at stake or kit manufacturers or agents. Support it just reminds me to ignore what grossly overpaid youngsters say and what relatively well paid journos write about them. I scratch my head when such large amounts of money are given to individuals. But its the way the market works I suppose. A wage cap would be a good thing but FIFA would hae to lead or else individual leagues would be left behind. Perhaps this form of cap coupled with mandatory wholescale reductions in ticket prices? Anyway. I will not buy the book and will reserve judgement on a person I have not met nor will not probably meet who leads a life quite different to my own (less well paid) cuckolded existence in a strange job overseas. What I do know is that SG is an exceptionally good player, one of the best in the world. He is surrounded by other good players and Salif Diao. The world is not a fair place - children starve each day - people are murdered each day - but being annoyed by a rich footballer does not do anything positive - nor does forming an opinion on partial evidence. I look forward to the match tonight and some meaningful charitable works by our players and club.

Chelsea will prob play 1 up front. 3 at the back is a waste against 1. We will prob play 4 5 1 - packing the midfield but allowing Stevie G, Luis and Pennat to get up as much as possible, making it look 4 3 3 at times. Reina Finnan Carra Agger Warnock Momo Alonso Garcia Pennant Stevie G Kuyt Agger and Kuyt keep their places. Luis on the left.

Without Neill Carra would not be the great player he is. Before broken leg = s**** After = legend

42.5% of statistics are made up.

The article seemed very reasonable. It did not cite sources but used definate articles, rather than a tabloid "could" it was Rafa "has" etc.