beejay

That's only an example of how the "new equity" would work. The likelihood is that the debt would be written back to manageable proportions rather than extinguished completely. The question is still who would be prepared to make such an investment? The comments from the Saudis now ring true - they didn't want their money to just service G&H's debt or to be forced to act as a peacemaker between the pair of them.

That's right - but we knew that anyway.

Getting back to Purslow's remarks about new equity and no share sales by the owners, this is the best summary I have seen as to the implications (assuming the guy - lfceddie on TIA - knows what he is talking about!) "When you buy into a company, you will have to also take on the liabilities (debt). Examples for you here. Hicks owns - 2,000,000 shares - 50% Gillett owns - 2,000,000 shares - 50% Total of - 4,000,000 shares with a value say £400million Both agreed to issue another 3,000,000 shares of worth £100 per share for new investors to come in. So that would raise £300mil. So if you put in that amount of new shares issued to the current ones you will get 7,000,000 shares. New Investor - 3,000,000 - 43% Hicks - 2,000,000 - 28.5% Gillett - 2,000,000 - 28.5% The £300mil will not be cashed out by the owners, that money will go into the club to either service the loan or operational expenses. This indirectly bailed the owners out from the debt, and they virtually get 28.5% of the club without paying a single cent or maybe a million or two. They win, but guess what we aas a club win too. Now as for the profit. If there is any and dividend is being declared by end of the financial year, the new owners will get 43% of the profit. Understand?"

Are you Mr Biscan in disguise?

Just read Stevie's post that Owen would retire and achieve his lifetime ambition to be a jockey, flicked the page to Knox then saying "He'd be perfect partnered with Nistlerooy"

The dumb cretin also says that the last person with the strong leadership to sort Rafa out was, wait for it......Rick Feckin Parry!!!! HAHAHAHAHA

Very doubtful if any of the injured will be available so... --------------------------------Reina--------------------------- Carragher-------------Skretl-----------Agger---------Aurelio Babel-------------Mascherano----------Lucas-------Dossena ------------------------Benayoun Kuyt------------------------ Compared to what would IMO be our best side : Reina,Johnson,Skretl, Agger, Aurelio, Kuyt, Mascherano, Aquilani, Benayoun, Gerrard, Torres. Sorry Carra, that doesn't include you this season.

I'm praying that their already perilous position might be damaged irretrievably by the results over the last month. They are facing being out of the Champions League both this season & next, with the possibility that the club could go even further downhill losing the best players who want to play at that level and being unable to attract others for the same reason. They can't or won't invest the money needed to get us back to that level so we may already have tipped over the edge, from 2nd to being outside the top 4 for a long time. The irony is that if they had just spent the extra £20m or so in the summer we could well have taken the next step up to become champions with all the financial benefits flowing from that, but instead if we fall out of the top 4 it will be much more expensive to rebuild and work our way back. Gillett wasn't in Saudi Arabia for his cars or the academy, the pair of them are desperately seeking new investment but no-one will accept their terms, even with a big success story on the pitch. Now that our projected cashflows have a big fat hole in them, their terms become even more ridiculous to the point that something has to give. Please let the penny drop so the greedy b*********s finally sell to someone who can take the club forward. If they do, we can believe that we can still recover some hope for both this season and for the future. If not, we are royally f*****d and so are they.

Insua should have been rested a month ago, as soon as Aurelio was back. He had shown signs of diminishing form and it was the right time to pat him on the back, put him on the bench and tell him to come back refreshed, strong & confident. Instead, we have overplayed him to the point where his belief has gone and he is completely shot (Maradona probably didn't help either). Lucas is also going missing now. As my lad said, he is adept at marking space - moving into an area where he will be marked so he can't receive the ball aka hiding. He is constantly on the move but doesn't influence the play at all and just like v Fiorentina, he is attempting outrageous interceptions in the middle of the pitch which, when they invariably don't come off, leaves the opposition with a clear run at goal. He was even more culpable than Insua for their late winner last night, jogging back & failing to track the runner who made the overlap. IMO, he is just not suited to our current style of play and is losing heart. He likes to pass the ball short but we don't have enough players comfortable on the ball to adopt this style and is forever on the fringes of the game. Mascherano & Riera are just going through the motions, neither of them look like they want to play for us. Carragher is in desperate form, probably guilty of more individual mistakes than anyone else this season & costing us the most points. Trouble is - if you take them all out of the firing line - who do we replace them with at the moment at a time when many of our best players are injured (Johnson, Gerrard, Torres)? Good luck Rafa

It's almost like Rafa is trying to prove a point here, either that his squad isn't strong enough, or to scare the owners into selling up, or to get the sack. Whichever, that team was really poor. Felt sorry for Reina, Agger, Kuyt & Benayoun who all did their best. Kelly was good & Ngog was OK for an hour then lost his way. The others were truly awful

That dude off TIA claimed Hicks is selling 25% of his share for $170m which "sounded about right"!

25% of Hicks' share for $170m = $680m to buy him out. Buying Gillett out for the same money = a total of $1,360m or £850m.

He also says the price for Hicks' 25% is $170m which "sounds just about right". Well, that values the club at £850m meaning he is talking out of his avatar.

Maybe, but it's a step forward so far as I'm concerned - Gillett f****g off would be great news. It's only the mail but it has a ring of truth given the events of the last few weeks

Something's missing this year, I think it's partly belief and partly attitude. Belief because the players aren't stupid, they knew we performed miracles last season with the squad available yet still came up just short. For us to push on and win the title they knew we needed strengthening but that didn't happen. We lack the confidence that we built up during the course of last season. Attitude because some of the players came back after the summer with chips on their shoulders - notably Mascherano & Riera - and the Alonso saga proved debilitating with the eventual loss of a key player and an important leader in the dressing room. You can imagine the lads last season looking around them and seeing Gerrard, Torres, Carra, Hyypia & Alonso and believing in ourselves. It's not such a strong dressing room this year. Rafa & the senior players need to work this out of our system. It's almost like they feel they have an excuse for not performing - it's because Alonso has gone or it's the owners' fault for not investing in the squad - I find myself making the same excuses when talking about games in the pub. They need to pull together, get the siege mentality thing going & give a good kicking to those who can't be arsed. We also need to get Agger, Aurelio & Aquilani into the team and hopefully we will start firing on all cylinders again.

According to someone on RAWK there is an interview with Skretl in a Slovakian paper last Friday in which he says that his jaw was broken (collision with Carra in 1st game of the season) but the club decided to keep it quiet instead opponents used it against him. He has been eating soup & fluids etc but is now alright again so is back to eating pizza. If that's true, no wonder he has struggled a bit esp in the air and could explain why he was back to his aggressive best yesterday.

That's easy for you to say Wilks, you are rich

Cue legions of clueless ITK's spouting the usual claptrap from their club sources.

Some real drama queens on here. I think SOS are doing a great job representing us here. You only have to read this thread to see how the fanbase is split over this issue. Even amongst those of us who despise the owners there are polarised views on what tactics we pursue to get them out. SOS are damned if they do and damned if they don't but credit to the senior people, they are aware of this and are quietly focussing on the big picture. As I & others have said earlier in the thread, we are in a different position now from when SOS was formed. At that time there was a clear enemy (G&H) and a clear alternative (DIC). SOS & the fanbase as a whole can point to a number of successes arising from the campaign so far : 1. Rafa wasn't sacked despite coming very, very close 2. Rafa then won the battle with Parry over control of team affairs, transfers & the Academy 3. G&H have ceased squabbling, shut their traps & taken a back seat on the day-to-day management of the club 4. Parry has gone and been replaced by Purslow, who seems to have learned lessons from his predecessor's litany of mistakes 5. RBS have re-financed only on the basis that the owners inject substantial equity of their own and reduce the interest-bearing debt on the club progressively to manageable levels. We cannot claim 100% of the credit for all this but I'm certain that the high-profile nature of the campaign and the targetted approach by fans, co-ordinated by SOS and maintained in the media have played a major part in all these successes. We now have some stability at the club (another step forward & a key part of what we were all campaigning for) but have a long way to go yet. We still have to face up to the fact that the poisonous duo are still there, in the background, the funds available to Rafa are insufficient and the stadium remains on the shelf. SOS are quite right to meet the club management (it's not like they have been wined & dined by the 2 yank b******s, I can't fathom why people may think otherwise) and it's also right that they take stock and figure out how to achieve the remaining goals. But clearly SOS and the fans have some influence which, used correctly, can shape the direction of the club. We have to keep the pressure on but we are starting from a position of much greater strength in contrast to the dark days when we were a laughing stock in the football world with Rafa out on a limb, Klinsmangate, G&H backstabbing, Parry floundering, rising debts & that tw*t Moores on the board.

As a start, we should get real. It's madness to hit the finances of the club. That can only reduce the disposal money for transfers with consequential impact on results. There is still a chance that Rafa can do the job on the pitch and Purslow/Ayres can work miracles off-pitch. We are not far off and I for one am prepared to give them the time & opportunity. F*ck G&H - RBS have changed the rules and they have to fall in line whether they like it or not. The debt has to come down & they have to put more of their own money in. I don't think they will ever be in a position to build the new stadium so their exit is more likely if they can fatten us up, show some good sets of accounts and on the back of a successful team on & off the pitch they can sell to someone with the capacity to build the stadium. SOS and the rest of us can hold them to account, question the dealings every transfer window, harass them in their own back yard, stay vigilant, make sure Purslow stays honest and back the team. That's not the same as doing nothing. As demonstrated on several occasions, notably at Leeds, the mass of fans will not support protests that might affect the team. SOS have to learn from this and the action we take has to be positive, with a well conceived end plan. It should not be thrashing around on the basis that doing anything, however daft, is better than doing nothing.

I was passionately behind this policy a year or so back when the consensus was that DIC wanted to buy out G&H but the greedy b*****s wanted too much. I stopped buying any goods from the club because why should my money help 2 lying anti-Rafa shysters to hang on to the club when a far better owner was waiting in the wings. It's different now. There are no indications that DIC or anyone else wants to buy us - quite the reverse because all attempts by G&H to sell in whole or in part (as recently as March as we now know from the Merrill Lynch brochure) have failed. We are stuck with them, for all their many faults, for the foreseeable future. But we now have a stable management team on & off the pitch. Purslow & Ayre are doing a decent job of attracting new sponsorship and Rafa is secure in his new 5 year contract. G&H have stopped shooting from the hip and are allowing the club to manage themselves. With a lot of pressure from RBS, they have put £60m equity back into the club and reduced the debt to £245m, way below the £350-420m bandied around in the media. I no longer see it in terms of the No 1 priority is to get them out, whatever it takes on or off the pitch. I want Liverpool to win the League, a 6th European Cup would be nice, so would a trip to Wembley. I want to do whatever I can as a supporter to help Rafa and the team. And so far as I can see, that means the more money going into the club ; the more likelihood of Rafa receiving a slice for transfers. I rejoice in the club securing Standard Chartered as our new shirt sponsors at a record annual sum ; hopefully, Carlsberg & others will also swell the coffers. I will buy my meat pie inside the ground rather than outside and wear the new shirt so that I'm investing in our future as well. It's no longer credible to think that harming the club by frightening off sponsors will, in some perverse way, actually improve Rafa's chances of winning silverware. I also believe that we have a much better chance of ridding ourselves of the 2 sh*thouses if the club are successful on & off the pitch. The opportunity for the firesale option has come & gone. RBS have re-financed, we have seen the worst of the credit crunch and they have not gone to the wall. In fact, they have sold other investments to ensure they keep hold of us. If the club are to change hands again it is more likely that will be because we are performing so well that investors will regard us as an attractive commodity, not that we can be picked up off the rubbish dump as a bargain. It's a huge U turn from me because one of my lowest points was when I heard that Moores had withdrawn from the DIC sale and was running with the yanks. I f**** knew it was a massive opportunity lost, that Dubai would be the perfect owners. If there was any chance they may be back in again I would welcome them with open arms having held my "SOS Dubai" banner to game after game. But that ship has sailed and pragmatism is the best policy now.

Whatever we all think about G&H and RBS, the fact is that they are finally having to inject some equity, some of their own cash and the debt is coming down.

Babel Spearing N'gog

Very tough game & as such a good pointer to the future for some of the fringe players. Marks out of 10 from me Cavalieri 5 : Indecisive & flapped at a few. Think he is a decent shot-stopper but his judgement, especially when to come off his line, is dodgy. Degen 7 : Did really well, surprisingly so given its only his 3rd appearance in 2 years. Defended well & plenty of energy going forward, would like to see more of him. Carragher : 6 Out of position a few times (strange because one of his great strengths over the years has been his positional awareness) & hoofed it too often but competed well Kyriakos : 7 Strong in the air, less so on the ground but looks a decent player for £1.5m & could be useful to step in during a long season Dossena : 2 Absolute crap. Shocking performance, made his Div 1 winger look a world beater, he is desperate at left back never again Rafa please Babel : 8 A real threat throughout, fantastic pace, good control & strength he is a terrific talent but sadly lacking in judgement meaning his final ball at the end of some great play is often lacking. One shot 2nd half would have burst the net if it was a foot lower. Good attitude though, well played Ryan Aurelio : 8 Class act, composed, intelligent use of the ball & helped us to keep shape when we were under severe pressure. Mascherano 7 Bit brainless at times but a player you want on your side in a dogfight, he doesn't go missing & helped to wrest control of the midfield after a shaky start. Riera 6 Didn't look interested, half-arsed performance but showed his skill & quality at times. Could be far better than he is, needs a Rafa b*ll*cking to motivate him more but has the ability Spearing 8 Surprised to see him playing in such a forward role but used the space well & some of his crisp passing was a revelation. Very impressive, he really needs to play more to see if he has "got it" at the top level. N'gog 8 Cracking finish & overall display but needs to work on holding up the ball with his back to goal & his awareness of others around him. Steady progression from N'Goals, he could save us a fortune in the transfer market if he keeps developing at this rate, putting together a decent portfolio of the art of goalscoring.

Barry, Johnson, Silva, Wheater. It's never that easy though, losing Barry changed everything