RedNik

Why not? We went from a pts total of 60 to 80, fell down to 68 and got it back up again this year. I don't see why, even with those "uninspiring signings" we couldn't get to 85 points.

I think the question is whether we need them on top of our current squad, or whether we need more efficient backups ie replacements for those who do leave. Personally, I think its the latter. With our current starting eleven, I don't think we have the personnel off the bench to change the game. Assuming Crouch is off, we need to get a replacement in who can do just that. Same with Pennant. Other than that, we probably need another right back if Finnan is done. I don't think it will take all that much money, its more a question of availability and getting players who fit the system.

Your challenge ends when you no longer believe you'll win the competition. Probably varies from person to person - I think had we beaten the Mancs at OT, Id've thought we had a chance at winning it all. A small chance, but still a chance, and we'd thus be challenging.

What kind of wages is he on? I assume they wont take on all of it?

Kaizer -I agree with you that Kuyt's premiership goal return this season has been piss poor, even for a right winger. That being said, you completely manipulating facts to suit your agenda is bs. 11 in 48 isn't great, no, but playing predominantly in midfield, and having to do the body of work in defense that he does, its a decent return. Add the personal problems he went through this season, and its pretty impressive. You might rate Voronin, that's fine, but his overall stats are s*** too. For that matter, his premiership stats show a goal return rate no better than Kuyt's.

If you have a look at the premiership tables over the last five years, the winners have hovered around the 90 point mark, with Chelsea having a freakishly good year in 04/05, totaling 95 points. Here is the reality - to all those doom and gloom merchants out there. Yes, Chelsea and Man U are going to add to their teams, and possibly improve their squads. The fact however remains, that next years champion is going to yet again get somewhere near 90 points in the season ( I actually think it might be a little less, because there is a group of emerging clubs, forming a solid second tier in the premiership). This is the benchmark for us, this is how much we need to improve. We need to add the necessary players, to convert say 3 or 4 of those draws we had into wins, and of course sustain our performances from this season. It doesn't matter how much we spend in comparison to them in reality, because we know we can't compete on that level. Rafa needs to search for bargains, for players ready to make the step up, and of course get the best out of them. I expect big things out of Ryan Babel next season, we need to remember how he has come on this season, and how much he'll gain from just physically growing, let alone a summer of training here. Our first eleven looks pretty strong, if we can sort out a wing back positions. Don't really know what happened to Finnan, but hope he isn't done and that he can recapture his form. Aurelio, Barry and Insua is probably what we're looking at for next season - which I'm fine with. Lucas too should develop (physically as well). We need to sort out our replacements, and add players on the bench who can change the game - big money or not. 10-15 points - that's the aim. http://soccernet.espn.go.com/tables?league...rue&cc=5901 Also, for anyone bummed about the season we had, have a look at our points totals in Rafa's first 2 years here. We've come a long way, and hopefully this summer will be the final push to get us challenging.

In all competitions, a number of which were those "meaningless" ones where they were just stacked upon one another. The only other consistent goal scorer we've had is Gerrard IMO and even his stats are buttressed by pennos.

Played some left mid too.

I think we suffer far more from the Carra, Riise and to a lesser extent Mascher long balls.

I'm always a little wary of drawing huge conclusions from Rafa's comments - especially those in English. If I were to, this is what I'd think: ...it seems like he's saying that we need to sell in order to buy. Crouch and Riise should be off - looks like he's just trying to lift the price of Peter. It also seems like he wants Barry Alonso Mascher and Lucas to fight for the 4 positions in midfield, with Barry also providing cover at left mid and left back. I think we can take from this that Gerrard is a certainty in that withdrawn striker position.

Albelda no - was a very limited defensive mid, similar to Didi offensively. Baraja certainly did though, and with both feet.

Is it? I don't think there would be much of a difference tbh. Both good players with pretty significant limitations. Dirk is definitely the more well rounded player, and offers versatility, but Crouch scores more and has the English thing going for him (though an even keel probably removes nationality differences...?)

I think this thread makes us appear closer than we truly are. Fact is we're 1 injury away from a disaster season. How many goals do you really see in this team without Torres? Chelsea and ManU both have more scoring options and diversity than us - this is what we need to address. I think we've looked great in the new formation, and we're perhaps an attacking midfielder and another 15 goal striker away from being genuine challenges. Again we're extremely strong in the center, both in midfield and defense. This makes the interest in Barry a little strange - for me it either means Rafa sees him as a left sided midfielder or either of Alonso or Lucas (likely the former) are off. We basically need to sign replacements for those who are leaving and add to this with a creative midfielder who can keep hold of possession.

If Joaquin is uninspiring as a right winger, I don't know what inspiring is. The fact is that wingers are hard to come by these days, and he would be a good signing. No need to talk about his potential to be a world beater etc. He can carry the ball well, and at pace - and this is what we lack in midfield.

Completely agree. We always tend to play the long ball when Crouch is on - a factor of both his height, and that he's come off the bench in games we were chasing. I don't think by-passing the midfield is the way we need to play, especially because most of our goals come from Torres being released facing the opposition.

Seems like its a big problem in Spain. Eto'o complained of the same.

Sort of hard to compare across different years, but I'd say Rafa inherited a far better institution than Ged did.

We had a good record against the top teams under Houllier. Fact is we need to improve. Too many draws, too many squandered leads. We didn't defend as well as we usually have under Rafa, and we struggled with not being able to create chances. It doesn't come down to records against teams for me, there are many games we should have done better in - and these don't include the top 3 teams in the Premiership.

You're ok with Kuyt and Crouch being our backup strikers? - if Crouch stays... big if for me. I'm not even including Voronin here because he's a s*** house. Personally think we'll need another striker instead of Crouch, someone willing to play bench and take his chances when given.

Nail on the head there for me. Man U have many potential goal scorers. Arsenal - not so much, and this whole season, they've been a little lucky with late goals and comebacks, and have eventually fallen off the pace. Chelsea have goal scorers and a wonderful bench. More importantly, they don't concede, especially at home, and can usually close out games. In our case, our defending wasn't as good as usual this season - we gave away goals, and often leads. This compounded with having really only 2 scorers really hurt us. Crouch didn't get integrated enough imo, and Kuyt struggled this year, with family problems etc. Goals from midfield were also hard to come by aside from Gerrard and Babel (Yossi scored some, but usually in blowouts).

Clearly that should be a problem you have with Rafa then.

My thinking is Rafa didn't bring on Babel because Essien was playing. I get that you want to attack a teams weaknesses, but you shouldn't avoid playing to your strengths, just because you have to go through their strengths to do so.

The concern with Kuyt is what he does when in possession - does he have the trickery/ability to create chances when we're in possession. He's popped up in good positions to score, which is a definite improvement, but beyond this, most of his work on the ball is in maintaining possession. Most of his good work in the last few games has been defensively. He's shown the ability to create when we don't have the ball, by shadowing defenders, tackling etc.

Why? I know you rate Voronin more than Kuyt - which is simply egregious.

He's ok, decent even - but certainly not anywhere near the class of Voronin or Riise.