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Proud to be British ?


Flight

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It's been a long time since I've felt any pride in being British and longer since I felt any pride being English.

 

Hasn't there been a TV series on recently (Paxman ?) about our colonial past ? Totally missed it so not sure it was worth watching

 

 

 

We previously discussed the Mau Mau case, Mau Mau torture claim Kenyans win right to sue British government

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/21/mau-mau-torture-kenyans-compensation

 

Anyway the more I learn, the more I realise the less I knew. I should be clear I'm not so surprised at what happened in history more our (our ? I mean our 'betters' of course) present reaction to it.

 

 

Last week's revelations, that the British government systematically destroyed the documents detailing mistreatment of its colonial subjects, and that the Foreign Office then lied about a secret cache of files containing lesser revelations, is by any standards a big story. But it was either ignored or consigned to a footnote by most of the British press. I was unable to find any mention of the secret archive on the Telegraph's website. The Mail's only coverage, as far as I can determine, was an opinion piece by a historian called Lawrence James, who used the occasion to insist that any deficiencies in the management of the colonies were the work of "a sprinkling of misfits, incompetents and bullies", while everyone else was "dedicated, loyal and disciplined".

 

However, among the documents are a handful which show that many of the most sensitive papers from Britain's late colonial era were not hidden away, but simply destroyed. These papers give the instructions for systematic destruction issued in 1961 after Iain Macleod, secretary of state for the colonies, directed that post-independence governments should not get any material that "might embarrass Her Majesty's government", that could "embarrass members of the police, military forces, public servants or others eg police informers", that might compromise intelligence sources, or that might "be used unethically by ministers in the successor government"

.

 

 

Britain destroyed records of colonial crimes

18/04/2012

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/apr/18/britain-destroyed-records-colonial-crimes?newsfeed=true

 

 

Deny the British empire's crimes? No, we ignore them

23/04/2012

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/apr/23/british-empire-crimes-ignore-atrocities

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Nobody in the world would be proud of their country if you only considered its worse moments. Similarly, everybody would be proud if you only considered their country's better moments.

 

Maybe the question is, is there any point in being proud of your country? I'm quite happy that I'm British. Can't think of a single other nationality I'd rather be. I'm not sure pride is the right word. More like contentment.

 

Being British in 2012 also doesn't mean you are in any way culpable or should feel shame about what this country did years ago, unless you were involved in those things. There is no such thing as guilt by historical association, in my opinion.

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Nobody in the world would be proud of their country if you only considered its worse moments. Similarly, everybody would be proud if you only considered their country's better moments.

 

Maybe the question is, is there any point in being proud of your country? I'm quite happy that I'm British. Can't think of a single other nationality I'd rather be. I'm not sure pride is the right word. More like contentment.

 

Being British in 2012 also doesn't mean you are in any way culpable or should feel shame about what this country did years ago, unless you were involved in those things. There is no such thing as guilt by historical association, in my opinion.

 

Think this is pretty similar to my position. I don't really know why I should feel shame or pride at the actions of others

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I feel nothing but pride. That's all I do feel. An empty pride. A hopeless vanity. A dreadful arrogance. A stupefyingly futile conceit. But at least it's something to hang on to.

 

As long as you're happy that's all that counts :)

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Not sure how you can feel ashamed or proud of something you've got no choice in.

pride should come from something you have achieved or attained, not from an accident of birth. george carlin. i'll never really understand blind patriotism.

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Being British in 2012 also doesn't mean you are in any way culpable or should feel shame about what this country did years ago, unless you were involved in those things. There is no such thing as guilt by historical association, in my opinion.

 

Indeed. Look at the Germans. Everyone likes them now. They're great

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pride should come from something you have achieved or attained, not from an accident of birth. george carlin. i'll never really understand blind patriotism.

 

 

what about Liverpool? I feel pride to support the club but that's partly, in a small way, down to the fact that I'm happy with the way I conduct myself as a supporter and the things I've done

 

 

maybe that's like being a good citizen in the UK and basking in the achievements of Britain.....all subjective of course

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pride should come from something you have achieved or attained, not from an accident of birth. george carlin. i'll never really understand blind patriotism.

 

what about something that you're attached to, like LFC for example, can you be proud of something the club or a certain player does?

 

Indeed. Look at the Germans. Everyone likes them now. They're great

 

Rebecca doesn't

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what about something that you're attached to, like LFC for example, can you be proud of something the club or a certain player does?

Not in the true sense of pride.

 

I'd say you can feel a sense of pride in the achievements of your child, or someone you have taught something to, but how can you be proud when Stevie G does something boss?

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Not in the true sense of pride.

 

I'd say you can feel a sense of pride in the achievements of your child, or someone you have taught something to, but how can you be proud when Stevie G does something boss?

 

You weren't proud of the club and team from coming back from 3-0 down in Istanbul?

 

Yes, you get personal pride from things you or your children achieve but of course you can feel pride for achievements of something or someone else you love.

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PIPPA MIDDLETON MUST APOLOGISE...AND GROW UP

 

SHE may not be a member of the Royal Family, but the sister of our future Queen now enjoys many of the privileges of royalty without the responsibility.

Ever since she became the world’s most famous bridesmaid, Pippa Middleton has been riding the crest of a wave of popularity.

Some think she has also been riding for a fall.

Pippa, 28, has become the recipient of lavish hospitality: freebie gifts and invitations to all the top high-society events. She is one of the most sought after party guests in Britain and now, it seems, in France.

The publicity she brings to events may partly explain why she is so popular with hosts, but the younger sister of the Duchess of Cambridge and her friends need to learn how to behave in front of the cameras in return.

This incident, when the driver brandished a gun, looks serious, whatever the attempts of officials in London and Paris to brush it under the carpet.

It will have embarrassed her sister Kate, her brother-in-law Prince William, and also the Queen in her Diamond Jubilee year.

Pippa, who works part-time for her family’s business Party Pieces and part time in events management, needs to explain herself and to apologise.

The man who brandished the weapon acted indefensibly, whatever the nuisance caused by the photographer in Paris.

It is worrying that this should have happened in the French capital, the scene of Princess Diana’s death after a car chase almost 15 years ago.

Photographers need to modify their behaviour but so too do those who are pursued by them.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/314954/314954

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Nobody in the world would be proud of their country if you only considered its worse moments. Similarly, everybody would be proud if you only considered their country's better moments.

 

Maybe the question is, is there any point in being proud of your country? I'm quite happy that I'm British. Can't think of a single other nationality I'd rather be. I'm not sure pride is the right word. More like contentment.

 

Being British in 2012 also doesn't mean you are in any way culpable or should feel shame about what this country did years ago, unless you were involved in those things. There is no such thing as guilt by historical association, in my opinion.

 

 

Good post.

 

I don't feel personally guity in any way. Disaffection perhaps. It's only a generation or two since the destruction of documents referred to in the OP - some of the folks on here will have been alive then (setting someone up for a Murph joke). Certainly the children of those Conservatives in Government then are ruling/running the country today.

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