Backwards or forwards

[Gunga Din]

as opposed to a traditional just back from the match thread, i thought i'd pose this one

 

are we moving forward or backwards

 

Reina is better than Dudek, i reckon that, i doubt many will disagree

Finnan is still at right back

Hyypia and Henchoz 2004 were the best about at the time, on a par with our current first choice of Carra and Agger

Carra at Left back. better than Riise there, better than Arbeloa there too, (i know thats counting Carra twice, but H+H+carra is better than Carra+ Agger+Riise

 

midfield, left wing first, Kewell, i know he is never fit, but still, fit, he is our first choice left mid

Right midfield, pennant or Diouf, hate him you might, but diouf was better than pennant

Centre mid Hamann and Gerrard or what we have now, in Gerrrad and A.N Other

Owen and Heskey or Torres and Kuyt/Crouch or Veronin.

 

for me, the team Rafa took over from Houllier would beat the team that we have now

 

right now that team is a shambles, and i think as a team, and as a squad, we have gone backwards

[Sir Tokyo Sexwale]

got to look at it over the season. I disagree. Arbeloa is perfectly good at LB & was almost instrumental in a very-well crafted goal today. Masch is a different proposition to Hamann, I think Babel at LM or RM is better than Diouf hands-down. Torres & Vornin should be our first choice striking partnership every week.

 

The first 30mins today were good, we just needed that second goal. There are some positives. After that it was a grim fare until Kuyt came on. We were good for a month & now crap for a month. We'll get back on track

[Guest Ant]

Not Really, this seasons team can win the league and is Championship Winning material all over the pitch.

 

I just believe we have a manager who is too stubborn to change his ways and just wants to be proved right no matter how many points it costs us and how soon he costs us the league.

[mooks]

as opposed to a traditional just back from the match thread, i thought i'd pose this one

 

are we moving forward or backwards

 

Reina is better than Dudek, i reckon that, i doubt many will disagree

Finnan is still at right back

Hyypia and Henchoz 2004 were the best about at the time, on a par with our current first choice of Carra and Agger

Carra at Left back. better than Riise there, better than Arbeloa there too, (i know thats counting Carra twice, but H+H+carra is better than Carra+ Agger+Riise

 

midfield, left wing first, Kewell, i know he is never fit, but still, fit, he is our first choice left mid

Right midfield, pennant or Diouf, hate him you might, but diouf was better than pennant

Centre mid Hamann and Gerrard or what we have now, in Gerrrad and A.N Other

Owen and Heskey or Torres and Kuyt/Crouch or Veronin.

 

for me, the team Rafa took over from Houllier would beat the team that we have now

 

right now that team is a shambles, and i think as a team, and as a squad, we have gone backwards

Henchoz 2004 couldn't get in the first team

Carra better than Arbeloa at left-back? Not from what I've seen. Arbeloa is twice the player going forward and has been solid defensively.

Kewell was never fit so what is your point?

Diouf better than Pennant/Benayoun/Kuyt? FLMAO

And what is your point about centre midfield and the strikers?

 

Could we have a just back from the match thread please?

[Guest Sabre]

I completely disagree with you but I'm too bloody knackered to go through it all. The main point I will make is that our squad poos all over the squad we had when Rafa took over.

[mooks]

Not Really, this seasons team can win the league and is Championship Winning material all over the pitch.

 

I just believe we have a manager who is too stubborn to change his ways and just wants to be proved right no matter how many points it costs us and how soon he costs us the league.

Have you and your dad switched user IDs?

[Gunga Din]

Henchoz 2004 couldn't get in the first team

Carra better than Arbeloa at left-back? Not from what I've seen. Arbeloa is twice the player going forward and has been solid defensively.

Kewell was never fit so what is your point?

Diouf better than Pennant/Benayoun/Kuyt? FLMAO

And what is your point about centre midfield and the strikers?

 

Could we have a just back from the match thread please?

the point is, i reckon Houllier team of 2004 would beat Rafa's team of 2007

[Guest Sabre]

Not Really, this seasons team can win the league and is Championship Winning material all over the pitch.

 

I just believe we have a manager who is too stubborn to change his ways and just wants to be proved right no matter how many points it costs us and how soon he costs us the league.

 

Agree with your first point.

 

Don't agree with your second.

 

Our problem is we miss two very important players in Agger and Alonso and we're missing an even more important player in Gerrard.

[Gunga Din]

I completely disagree with you but I'm too bloody knackered to go through it all. The main point I will make is that our squad poos all over the squad we had when Rafa took over.

 

aye, teh squad might, but "THE TEAM" hasnt. first 11 now isnt better than the one in 2004

[alias75]

Interesting point, i guess if you take all those players / partnerships at their best you could argue we've not progressed, but i think the current team playing at its best is more than a match for Geds team playing at its best. Reina is a better keeper and Agger gives us a dimension at the back that neither Henchoz or Hyppia at thier best had, midfield is a close run thing think Pennant v Diouf is debatable the truth is probably neither are good enough for us. Up front Torres is a much more complete striker than Owen although the Owen / Heskey partnership at its best is better than anything we've seen so far but with Torres only being here a few months he needs a chance to form a partnership with someone.

 

There have been times under Rafa where we've resembled that Valencia team that was so impressive, when we play that way we're almost unstoppable, i think defensively we're better under Rafa than we were under GH in Reina we have a keeper that allows us to play higher up the pitch and in Agger we finally have a CB capable of starting the play, i also think under GH whenever we conceded the first goal we struggled badly, i think the current team playing to its best is a much more dangerous side going forward.

 

I think the problem at the moment is too many players arent performing at the level they can and as a team we're also struggling. But overall i think we have a stronger squad and if this current team plays to potential we're better than Geds team although theres not much in it.

[dorgie]

The squad that Rafa took over had been together for a bit longer than the current one so it's probably a bit unfair to make comparisons at this stage.

 

The current squad are clearly not playing well, but the front 2 and the left back today are barely 2 months into their time at the club and Mascherano isn't much longer.

 

I am hoping (bordering on believing) that we'll ride out this storm and we'll beat the bluenoses next which will provide a much needed lift to everyone in the squad. We really need to get Torres into that game and have him run at Stubbs as I feel he can destroy him.

[George Costanza]

the point is, i reckon Houllier team of 2004 would beat Rafa's team of 2007

 

I disagree but I don't think we've made the necessary setps forwrad we should have done and how much we've spent warrants it. Controversial but I think rafa is just a better version of Houllier

[Guest Sabre]

aye, teh squad might, but "THE TEAM" hasnt. first 11 now isnt better than the one in 2004

 

So what? The first XI doesn't win you the league. The squad does.

[Gunga Din]

So what? The first XI doesn't win you the league. The squad does.

 

dont know if you've noticed or not, but we havent won the league in quite a while, and rafa has managed us out of a title challenge before we see Christmas every year since he arrived.

Edited October 7, 2007 by big wayne

[Guest Ant]

Agree with your first point.

 

Don't agree with your second.

 

Our problem is we miss two very important players in Agger and Alonso and we're missing an even more important player in Gerrard.

 

You Don't buy a £11 Million pound player and put him on the bench half the time

 

You Don't buy your '20-Goal-A-Season' Striker and put him on the bench when the other strikers you have apart from Voronin never cut it last season.

 

You don't rotate players that had a good game last game.

 

This all stems down to the Pompey game, Torres and Gerrard where fit, if he played them everything else would of been pointless we would of taken Birmingham down with the roll that we were on.

 

But we didn't beat Pompey and he STILL DROPPED TORRES.

 

I Really don't get Rafa's style of management, it's as if he is ploughing a Bullet Train through our chances...

 

Message to Rafa..

 

"Stop Trying to prove the f***ing media wrong, it isn't going to happen, f***ing play your best squad and play it every game unless they are f***ing injured and stop preparing yourself for injuries that haven't happend yet"

 

It's so fustrating because a less stubborn manager wouldn't of fannied around with this rotation b******s....

 

This year Rafa it isn't about the players the buck stops with you

[Guest Sabre]

dont know if you've noticed or not, but we havent won the league in quite a while, and rafa has managed us out of a title challenge before we see Christmas every year since he arrived.

 

We should all give up then. My mistake.

[Gunga Din]

You Don't buy a £11 Million pound player and put him on the bench half the time

 

You Don't buy your '20-Goal-A-Season' Striker and put him on the bench when the other strikers you have apart from Voronin never cut it last season.

 

You don't rotate players that had a good game last game.

 

This all stems down to the Pompey game, Torres and Gerrard where fit, if he played them everything else would of been pointless we would of taken Birmingham down with the roll that we were on.

 

But we didn't beat Pompey and he STILL DROPPED TORRES.

 

I Really don't get Rafa's style of management, it's as if he is ploughing a Bullet Train through our chances...

 

Message to Rafa..

 

"Stop Trying to prove the f***ing media wrong, it isn't going to happen, f***ing play your best squad and play it every game unless they are f***ing injured and stop preparing yourself for injuries that haven't happend yet"

 

It's so fustrating because a less stubborn manager wouldn't of fannied around with this rotation b******s....

 

This year Rafa it isn't about the players the buck stops with you

 

if we ever win the title under Rafa, it will be inspite of rotation, not because of it

[Guest Sabre]

You Don't buy a £11 Million pound player and put him on the bench half the time

 

You Don't buy your '20-Goal-A-Season' Striker and put him on the bench when the other strikers you have apart from Voronin never cut it last season.

 

You don't rotate players that had a good game last game.

 

This all stems down to the Pompey game, Torres and Gerrard where fit, if he played them everything else would of been pointless we would of taken Birmingham down with the roll that we were on.

 

But we didn't beat Pompey and he STILL DROPPED TORRES.

 

I Really don't get Rafa's style of management, it's as if he is ploughing a Bullet Train through our chances...

 

Message to Rafa..

 

"Stop Trying to prove the f***ing media wrong, it isn't going to happen, f***ing play your best squad and play it every game unless they are f***ing injured and stop preparing yourself for injuries that haven't happend yet"

 

It's so fustrating because a less stubborn manager wouldn't of fannied around with this rotation b******s....

 

This year Rafa it isn't about the players the buck stops with you

 

You listen to other people too much.

 

It's so frustrating listening to fans talk like they know it all when they are just confusing themselves with rhetoric they've heard on Radio sodding Merseyside.

 

A less stubborn manager? Who else in England has reached two European Cup Finals in three seasons? Give over lad. You don't know jack s***.

[Gunga Din]

You listen to other people too much.

 

It's so frustrating listening to fans talk like they know it all when they are just confusing themselves with rhetoric they've heard on Radio sodding Merseyside.

 

A less stubborn manager? Who else in England has reached two European Cup Finals in three seasons? Give over lad. You don't know jack s***.

 

what, so the fans know nothing? the manager is always right?

[smicer07]

You listen to other people too much.

 

It's so frustrating listening to fans talk like they know it all when they are just confusing themselves with rhetoric they've heard on Radio sodding Merseyside.

 

A less stubborn manager? Who else in England has reached two European Cup Finals in three seasons? Give over lad. You don't know jack s***.

 

Is the correct answer.

[smicer07]

what, so the fans know nothing? the manager is always right?

 

I prefer the trust the instinct and ability of a man who has won the league in Spain, won a European Cup with a team we thought wouldn't have a hope in hell of getting close, and an FA Cup, that I would some half arsed media regurgitating football followers tbh.

[Guest Ant]

You listen to other people too much.

 

It's so frustrating listening to fans talk like they know it all when they are just confusing themselves with rhetoric they've heard on Radio sodding Merseyside.

 

A less stubborn manager? Who else in England has reached two European Cup Finals in three seasons? Give over lad. You don't know jack s***.

 

Tell me something are you going to be clutching onto that argument when we finish 4th again this season and we don't make any final?

 

I am not discredting the mans Achievements, but it has been shown already that Europe and The Premiership are two totally different ball games.

 

For the past few seasons we have been out the league come christmas, due to rotation however we have been fit in the Final Third to bad we have been out of the league come that point....

 

However this time around Rafa has got the players which can compete on all four fronts, rotation isn't really needed?

 

I was just hoping regardless of his Hatrick Torres would be starting in the league rather than the league cup?

 

Is it too much to ask for that we just play our best f***ing team in the competition that we really want to f***ing win, and that we are capable of winning?

Edited October 7, 2007 by Ant

[FC Showster]

what, so the fans know nothing? the manager is always right?

 

The manager is always right, right up until the point he is sacked and then the new manager is always right

[Gunga Din]

Is the correct answer.

 

we should all just stop having an opinion then, brilliant

[Guest Sabre]

what, so the fans know nothing? the manager is always right?

 

Na, just that fans that think that Rafa's decision-making over who starts which games is flawed simply because THEY think certain players are better because they:

 

(a) run fast

(b) kick it with more style

© cost more money

(d) have nice hair

 

ad nauseum

 

It's boring and an easy argument for stupid people to peddle whilst they furrow their brows trying to figure out how gravity works. SCIENCE WORKS. It's out there. It's real. It's just that millions of people don't get it and therefore think it's bulls***.