Stuck Kyut in the box

[Guest prophet]

On the evidence of his perfromances esp the last match, hes a sniffer for goal PROVIDED hes played in the box.

 

Albeit we have oft talked of his non stop running and harrying around the field (sometimes even to the extend of being in our own third of the field!), hes best in the box if we are to get strking consistency out of him.

 

Rafa are you listening?

[jfogarty]

On the evidence of his perfromances esp the last match, hes a sniffer for goal PROVIDED hes played in the box.

 

Albeit we have oft talked of his non stop running and harrying around the field (sometimes even to the extend of being in our own third of the field!), hes best in the box if we are to get strking consistency out of him.

 

Rafa are you listening?

 

His finishing isnt good enough for him to be a poacher

[Guest prophet]

His finishing isnt good enough for him to be a poacher

 

Looked good the way he took the two goals...

[jfogarty]

Looked good the way he took the two goals...

 

So did Meijer against Hull

[RafaShanks]

Rafa's not gonna listen if you can't spell properly.

[Guest prophet]

So did Meijer against Hull

 

Are you comparing him with Mad erik. What i am saying ia ti give him a chance to be a poacher which he hasnt been given up to date. Hes had to run around fighting for the ball. Whereas if he was to concerntrate on poaching, the outcome may indeed be different.

[jfogarty]

Are you comparing him with Mad erik. What i am saying ia ti give him a chance to be a poacher which he hasnt been given up to date. Hes had to run around fighting for the ball. Whereas if he was to concerntrate on poaching, the outcome may indeed be different.

 

But the thing is hes not going to change. Running around fighting is his game

 

As for Eric I just wanted to include him in a thread on the eve of a big match

[Leo No.8]

He is a good finisher.

 

Kuyt is the fifth highest scorer in the Premier League, and the first player to score 10 league goals since Rafa arrived. He's done that in his first season at the club and his first season in England, coming from the Dutch league which takes some adapting.

 

Considering he spends most of his time outside the box and running his a*** off, I'd say that makes him a decent finisher. He's missed some, but you look at his finishes for example against Spurs, Chelsea, West Ham and Wigan and they are demonstrations of excellent technique.

 

It baffles me how anyone can say he doesn't score enough goals and he isn't a good finisher when he's scored more in the competion we all want to win than any other striker we've had here under Rafa, and comes with a phenomenal record in Holland and two European Golden boots.

 

I completely agree with prophet who says he needs to spend more time in the penalty area. And comparing him to Meijer is just idiotic.

Edited April 25, 2007 by Leo No.8

[Ben 23]

He isn't a good finisher. You can't claim someone is a good finisher by the goals they have scored without looking at the chances that they have missed. A good finisher puts away the majority of chances that come their way, if Kuyt did this he'd be on about 50 goals.

Edited April 25, 2007 by Ben 23

[Leo No.8]

He isn't a good finisher. You can't claim someone is a good finisher by the goals they have scored without looking at the chances that they have missed. A good finisher puts away the majority of chances that come their way, if Kuyt did this he'd be on about 50 goals.

 

There isn't a striker in the world who 'puts away the majority of chances' this is the whole point. Every striker goes weeks at a time without scoring, every striker has games when they miss a hatful. Some people seem to expect our strikers to score every time they have a half chance - it looks easy when you're in the stands but it's one hell of a lot harder when you're out there on the pitch.

 

Even the greatest strikers probably have a conversion rate of under 50% of chances, but the very best not only stick it in the net more often when presented with the opportunity but get themselves into far more positions to score.

 

So yes, I'd say the only thing you look at is the goals they've scored - I think you're completely wrong.

 

You can argue about how good a finisher a player is until you're blue in the face, but at the end of the day the only fact is the number of goals a striker scores. How he does it doesn't really matter, the greatest goalscorers are quite simply the players who score the most goals.

 

You can rate a forward in other ways - his work rate for the team, assists etc but when judging someone as a goalscorer there is only one way of doing it.

Edited April 25, 2007 by Leo No.8

[The_Adder]

Couldn't agree more with Leo.

 

Kuyt in Holland played much more forward and hit 25+ goals over the past four seasons, if you aint a good finisher you aint gonna achieve that, its that simple.

 

If you look at Valencia and then us, how many of Rafa's strikers has hit 25+ or even 20+ in a season? Mista scored 18 and that was the closest. He also took penalties.

 

Rafa seems to like his strikers to do a lot more than just goal hang and wait for a chance, maybe if Kuyt did this he hit 25+ for us.

[Guest Finnan3]

He is a good finisher.

 

Kuyt is the fifth highest scorer in the Premier League, and the first player to score 10 league goals since Rafa arrived. He's done that in his first season at the club and his first season in England, coming from the Dutch league which takes some adapting.

 

Considering he spends most of his time outside the box and running his a*** off, I'd say that makes him a decent finisher. He's missed some, but you look at his finishes for example against Spurs, Chelsea, West Ham and Wigan and they are demonstrations of excellent technique.

 

It baffles me how anyone can say he doesn't score enough goals and he isn't a good finisher when he's scored more in the competion we all want to win than any other striker we've had here under Rafa, and comes with a phenomenal record in Holland and two European Golden boots.

 

I completely agree with prophet who says he needs to spend more time in the penalty area. And comparing him to Meijer is just idiotic.

 

Ya I think he's done really well except for February/March when he looked knackered/out of sorts. Its his first season, hopefully he'll have learnt a lot and get even better for next season.

[cymrococh]

Kuyt is a very good finisher.

[Dog]

Give him time.

 

Another season and you will all be worshipping him.

[Mondavi]

Agree with Leo, NO striker scores from the majority of chances presented to him.

 

Striker's should be judged on

 

1. goals per game (these days minutes per goal or goals per start might be more relevant)

2. number of chances (if you're getting more chances, then you are obviously getting in the right positions, and more chances means more opportunities to score)

3. ability to score important goals in big games.

4. assists and overall game play.

5. Sitters missed (Dirk has been in danger of losing points in this category, but I feel he has just been too desperate, not bad finishing)

 

I don't necessarily think percentage of chances taken is a good stat. It's possible a really good striker could get in lots of good positions, and maybe have many more half chances than other strikers.

[Leo No.8]

I think his finishing is along the same lines as Alan Shearer. He's obviously got some way to go to be as good as Shearer was in his heyday but I see some comparisons. He's not particualrly subtle; he mostly belts it when given the chance, but his technique is good and he often hits the target.

 

People can criticise him if they want; for me, my biggest problem with Kuyt is that his touch ranges between the sublime and the ridiculous from game to game, he needs more consistency there because he obviously has the ability. I think it's because he's too eager, too keen to do everything at 100mph that he sometimes gets ahead of himself and doesn't concentrate on that first touch.

 

But instead I keep seeing the same things said from the people who don't like him that 'he's not a good finisher' or he doesn't score enough goals'. Like I say, the hard evidence contradicts that - 5th highest scorer in his first season in the English league playing in side and for a manager who demand he does a lot more than hang around the box.

 

Perhaps if we get a quick forward who will pick it up in wide areas we'll see more of Kuyt in the box next season and even more goals, I hope that's exactly what happens. But overall I'm really happy with his first season with us - 8/10 for me.

Edited April 25, 2007 by Leo No.8

[David Hodgson]

He isn't a good finisher. You can't claim someone is a good finisher by the goals they have scored without looking at the chances that they have missed. A good finisher puts away the majority of chances that come their way, if Kuyt did this he'd be on about 50 goals.

 

Remind us of a few of the sitters that he's missed.

[fred milne]

Remind us of a few of the sitters that he's missed.

It wasn't a sitter but he had a decent opportunity at Stamford Bridge when the game was still 0-0. That could have been a pivotal point in the season had he converted the chance.

[psl]

It wasn't a sitter but he had a decent opportunity at Stamford Bridge when the game was still 0-0. That could have been a pivotal point in the season had he converted the chance.

 

When he hit the angle?

 

Crouch missed a sitter!

[Maldini]

I think he'll score 25+ next season

[fred milne]

I think he'll score 25+ next season

I hope you're right but I really can't see it. He doesn't that seem that clinical to me and I think Rafa's sides will always be relatively low-scoring (and low-conceding) teams.

[Ben 23]

He'll never score...

[Bootle Buck]

He is asked to do too much work outside the box to score 25 a season. At times he looks like an extra midfielder.

[CaptainXabi]

He is asked to do too much work outside the box to score 25 a season. At times he looks like an extra midfielder.

Unfortunately, I think he won't make it here in th end. Harsh, I know, but he's just slightly too slow, slightly too weak, slightly too short, etc. It's unfortunate, but that's how I see it. At the highest level hard work can't make up for everything, especially for strikers.