My concerns about the takeover

[Spike]

I know it's necessary and we seem to have finally found a buyer who understands the ethos of the club, and most importantly will not take the chelsea route of outbidding and outmuscling other clubs in an auction. We will buy to improve our club not to nullify the market or efforts of others it seems.

 

In that I tip my hat off to Parry and Moores and living by their mantra of finding the right buyer not just any buyer.

 

However, these past two seasons under Rafa we have won two major trophies - the biggest in europe and the biggest knockout comp in England. All on what revenues we have managed to generate as a business.

 

The takeover, I feel, is unfairly raising short term expectations as we a) will finally have the funds to compete against the other top clubs in europe (even though we won the CL with an unlikely squad including the Biscans, Traores, etc of this world) and thus success will be expected immediately amongst the fringe / firebrand phone in fans and b) the media who would love to whip up pressure on Rafa and his signings to shift sales / increase viewers.

 

Without investment we had the luxury of time in being a team in transit, being built both in the first team, the first team squad, and in our reserves and youth set-up.

 

With investment I fear that the focus will solely remain upon our first team's achievements without any context for investment in our youth set-up and in producing Rafa's legacy.

 

So basically, all I'm saying is this - we can't expect to maintain our traditions without patience. We can't expect to simply buy a league winning team without compromising our traditions. We can't expect others to appreciate our achievements with such funds at our disposal unless we avoid the January sales mentality at pre-Christmas prices. We must accept that the investment is within the club and not just the first 11. It's about being able to compete and build a legacy not getting a few high class lasses in for a couple of nights in may for some top class f***s.

 

Don't expect or demand that we win number 19 or 6 because we have more money. I honestly trust in Rafa but I don't trust that he'll avoid getting stampeded in our fan's goldrush to glory.

 

To me, the investment means no more than guaranteed survival and ability to compete. Rafa must be allowed to find and build his own frontier.

 

So patience my fellow kopites. We can't have all of our christmases come at once, as it makes the next one pretty s*** unless it's of greater commercial and emotional value. To me, there will be no other better emotional value than 25/05/05 simply cos it cost f*** all as every moment was worth more than the thousands we spent as fans in usurping every expectation as the rounds went by. So let's not devalue Rafa over the next few seasons simply because our of own want-all, traditionalist, success focused, expecatation and the fact we have a load of money to boot.

 

I'd rather a couple of seasons building a 20 year dynasty than a couple of buying trophies. So let's be excited but let's not get carried away eh? Otherwise we could lose another 5 or more years of success beyond that and our investors may well f*** off after that.

[Scally Bob]

Some valid points there but I would think that because the proposed new owners are successful businessmen with a knowledge of sport they will recognise that youth development is vital. That would be a continuation of the ethos of the Club and I would expect it would have been a matter discussed in the negotiations; after all just asking for investment so we can compete withe the Russian thief wouldn't be a great sales pitch.

 

Sadly in these days of experts on every phone-in and the ability to form opinions based not on match-going but listening to Charlie Nicholas or Andy Gray, the ridiculous hype of Sky means many people expect success immediately. Often those least qualified to demand results clamour for it more and they are the sorts who have forgotten the constraints Rafa has worked under (including the legacy of paying off Gerard, his backroom staff and his failed signings) and probably ring 6-0-6 to call for his head.

 

Inevitably a new ground will mean more Soccer AM whoppers but I think the potential new owners will protect the footballing integrity of the Club.

[Romario]

It's a real shame we have to go this route but you only have to look at the league table and see what money buys. I thought at the start of the season we could be up there and the moral high ground could have been ours in a sense but in reality i don't think that can happen without big sums of money. It's not a cert but it means we're all fighting under the same weight for once. (the top 3 or 4 that is)

 

I actually really feel for fans and the other clubs in our league these days.

[Guest Scot]

Another true Romario. Two in a week.

 

[jfogarty]

I know it's necessary and we seem to have finally found a buyer who understands the ethos of the club, and most importantly will not take the chelsea route of outbidding and outmuscling other clubs in an auction. We will buy to improve our club not to nullify the market or efforts of others it seems.

 

In that I tip my hat off to Parry and Moores and living by their mantra of finding the right buyer not just any buyer.

 

However, these past two seasons under Rafa we have won two major trophies - the biggest in europe and the biggest knockout comp in England. All on what revenues we have managed to generate as a business.

 

The takeover, I feel, is unfairly raising short term expectations as we a) will finally have the funds to compete against the other top clubs in europe (even though we won the CL with an unlikely squad including the Biscans, Traores, etc of this world) and thus success will be expected immediately amongst the fringe / firebrand phone in fans and b) the media who would love to whip up pressure on Rafa and his signings to shift sales / increase viewers.

 

Without investment we had the luxury of time in being a team in transit, being built both in the first team, the first team squad, and in our reserves and youth set-up.

 

With investment I fear that the focus will solely remain upon our first team's achievements without any context for investment in our youth set-up and in producing Rafa's legacy.

 

So basically, all I'm saying is this - we can't expect to maintain our traditions without patience. We can't expect to simply buy a league winning team without compromising our traditions. We can't expect others to appreciate our achievements with such funds at our disposal unless we avoid the January sales mentality at pre-Christmas prices. We must accept that the investment is within the club and not just the first 11. It's about being able to compete and build a legacy not getting a few high class lasses in for a couple of nights in may for some top class f***s.

 

Don't expect or demand that we win number 19 or 6 because we have more money. I honestly trust in Rafa but I don't trust that he'll avoid getting stampeded in our fan's goldrush to glory.

 

To me, the investment means no more than guaranteed survival and ability to compete. Rafa must be allowed to find and build his own frontier.

 

So patience my fellow kopites. We can't have all of our christmases come at once, as it makes the next one pretty s*** unless it's of greater commercial and emotional value. To me, there will be no other better emotional value than 25/05/05 simply cos it cost f*** all as every moment was worth more than the thousands we spent as fans in usurping every expectation as the rounds went by. So let's not devalue Rafa over the next few seasons simply because our of own want-all, traditionalist, success focused, expecatation and the fact we have a load of money to boot.

 

I'd rather a couple of seasons building a 20 year dynasty than a couple of buying trophies. So let's be excited but let's not get carried away eh? Otherwise we could lose another 5 or more years of success beyond that and our investors may well f*** off after that.

 

You forgot to mention the increase in glory hunting f***wits that will start following the club

 

Good post though

[4411]

Good points there Spike.

 

The takeover, I feel, is unfairly raising short term expectations as we a) will finally have the funds to compete against the other top clubs in europe (even though we won the CL with an unlikely squad including the Biscans, Traores, etc of this world) and thus success will be expected immediately amongst the fringe / firebrand phone in fans and b) the media who would love to whip up pressure on Rafa and his signings to shift sales / increase viewers.

 

Without investment we had the luxury of time in being a team in transit, being built both in the first team, the first team squad, and in our reserves and youth set-up.

 

But for how long can you be a team in transit? I think its fair to say that last season we were a team in transition but before the start of this season many had huge expectations towards winning the league, including the players.

 

I think its only positive that Rafa will be given funds to buy 1 or 2 world class players along with 1 or 2 very good players to enhance our first team squad in the summer. It will also tell us allot about Rafa, he's never had allot of money at his disposal before so to see how he fares come next season will be interesting.

 

So basically, all I'm saying is this - we can't expect to maintain our traditions without patience. We can't expect to simply buy a league winning team without compromising our traditions.

 

That?s a no-win situation, if we sign 1 or 2 players like Kaka or Rooney and win the league its inevitable that other team's fans and the media will say we bought the league. However, if the Arab gives us money to spend but Rafa still opts for the Zenden's and Pennant's of this world I don?t think we'll have to worry about us winning the league, let alone buying it.

[fyds]

If all goes through smoothly as expected, we will get a new stadium, a whole new range of expertise and more money than we have ever been used to. This will not make us Chelsea, as our strategy to get numbers 19 and 6 will be our strategy and not theirs - i.e., buying everything half decent or of use to an opponent that they can get hold of.

 

Maktoum and Moores are not Abramovich by inclination and tradition - ie, they have some.

Parry is not kenyon - a genuine red, former youth keeper and definitive football man.

Rafa is not Mourinho and wants his sides to win everything for the glory of the fans and club, rather than himself - you won't see him doing American Express ads.

 

As Mike said a week or two ago (if I remember right) it seems Heighway will be off to Memphis (or somewhere - maybe Dubai?) our man from Southampton will be in the academy and you can bet Rafa will be more hands on once this happens.

 

Rafa may (with new money) pay as much as £15m for the occassional Alves - but he won't pay £30m for a Shevchenko. We will look far more attractive to the kids of Germany, France, Spain etc (which Heighway didn't like) with a new regime and more money spent on it. We would, I feel have very successful youths coming through then - but not of a purely parochial make up that ends so often at 19-20 with being offloaded to Bury, Sc***horpe or Hull. It will be an international youth set up along the lines of the old Ajax model, and as with Ajax, i can't see Rafa and the new bloke doing an Arsenal and skimping on the locals entirely - he jknows the heart of the team should be English, preferably scouse.

 

As for expectations - undoubtedly they will rise - and they should. Some will go overboard but then some always will. Most of us will realise that realistically, what it does is level the playing field with the Mancs, Chelsea and to a lesser extent, Arsenal. Most of us will now hope for No. 19 especially, asap. at the same time, if the team is to be rebuilt with better parts, we can't expect that in one or even two seasons - but we can, given Rafa's pedigree, hope for it.

 

Football in this country has always been backed by multi-millionaires, often self-made men ( soemtimes to the detriment of clashing egos). In the Premiership age in recent times, it's gone up a notch or ten as the Premiership is now a truly globally-watched entity. According to the Premierships own GMR stats, our game against Man City was beamed live into nearly 45,000,000 homes worldwide - against Man City! - and Servecast, who handle the LFC.tv streaming web service hasve conducted a study which says that essentially, if self-directed and broadcast streams for Liverpool homegames were broadcast as of now, they could trble that audience overnight. What this illustrates to me is that Football in the premiership is fast becoming the preserve of billionaires, rather than multi-millionaires. We have players on the bench who are no doubt richer than some Championship and most League 1&2 club owners. It's how it is - same in Germany, Spain and Italy.

 

Most of us would say that we as individuals and families are far richer overall, both in money, property and lifestyle than were our parents - football is simply moving the same way. The finances, resources, fees and structures of Shankly's time would see even the great man struggling to put a conference team together. It's just the world turning.

 

The most important point is whether Parry and Moores have got the rifght people in - given what we have heard so far, it seems they have. The proof will finally be in the eating, but at this moment in time I think it's both the right move for the club and the fans.

[Spike]

soothing words there fyds. Hope it maps out as thus

[Spike]

Another true Romario. Two in a week.

 

 

thank you scot. It's tough sometimes starting a thread and trying to post something original without jumping on a bandwagon or making daft sarcy comments as I am wont to do.

[jon_hall]

You forgot to mention the increase in glory hunting f***wits that will start following the club

 

Good post though

 

No change from now then. They all appear on euro aways when we get the likes of Anderlecht or Eindhoven.

 

They go back in the woodwork when we have to travel to eastern europe.

[Poolfrog]

No change from now then. They all appear on euro aways when we get the likes of Anderlecht or Eindhoven.

 

They go back in the woodwork when we have to travel to eastern europe.

Have you ever considered the possibility that not everyone has the time or money to go to Eastern Europe whereas Belgium and Holland are a lot closer? I've done European trips going back 40 years but don't bother much now. Doesn't make me a gloryhunter coming out of the woodwork when I make my occasional foray, like Roma in the 2001 UEFA Cup. It's all about choice

[Andy @ Allerton]

I know it's necessary and we seem to have finally found a buyer who understands the ethos of the club, and most importantly will not take the chelsea route of outbidding and outmuscling other clubs in an auction. We will buy to improve our club not to nullify the market or efforts of others it seems.

 

In that I tip my hat off to Parry and Moores and living by their mantra of finding the right buyer not just any buyer.

 

However, these past two seasons under Rafa we have won two major trophies - the biggest in europe and the biggest knockout comp in England. All on what revenues we have managed to generate as a business.

 

The takeover, I feel, is unfairly raising short term expectations as we a) will finally have the funds to compete against the other top clubs in europe (even though we won the CL with an unlikely squad including the Biscans, Traores, etc of this world) and thus success will be expected immediately amongst the fringe / firebrand phone in fans and b) the media who would love to whip up pressure on Rafa and his signings to shift sales / increase viewers.

 

Without investment we had the luxury of time in being a team in transit, being built both in the first team, the first team squad, and in our reserves and youth set-up.

 

With investment I fear that the focus will solely remain upon our first team's achievements without any context for investment in our youth set-up and in producing Rafa's legacy.

 

So basically, all I'm saying is this - we can't expect to maintain our traditions without patience. We can't expect to simply buy a league winning team without compromising our traditions. We can't expect others to appreciate our achievements with such funds at our disposal unless we avoid the January sales mentality at pre-Christmas prices. We must accept that the investment is within the club and not just the first 11. It's about being able to compete and build a legacy not getting a few high class lasses in for a couple of nights in may for some top class f***s.

 

Don't expect or demand that we win number 19 or 6 because we have more money. I honestly trust in Rafa but I don't trust that he'll avoid getting stampeded in our fan's goldrush to glory.

 

To me, the investment means no more than guaranteed survival and ability to compete. Rafa must be allowed to find and build his own frontier.

 

So patience my fellow kopites. We can't have all of our christmases come at once, as it makes the next one pretty s*** unless it's of greater commercial and emotional value. To me, there will be no other better emotional value than 25/05/05 simply cos it cost f*** all as every moment was worth more than the thousands we spent as fans in usurping every expectation as the rounds went by. So let's not devalue Rafa over the next few seasons simply because our of own want-all, traditionalist, success focused, expecatation and the fact we have a load of money to boot.

 

I'd rather a couple of seasons building a 20 year dynasty than a couple of buying trophies. So let's be excited but let's not get carried away eh? Otherwise we could lose another 5 or more years of success beyond that and our investors may well f*** off after that.

 

I'm not a bloody Kopite - Kopites are g*******s

[fyds]

I'm not a bloody Kopite - Kopites are g*******s

Gwladys Street boy

[Andy @ Allerton]

Gwladys Street boy

 

[fyds]

soothing words there fyds. Hope it maps out as thus

More a case of stripping away the sentiment and emotion and looking at the logic of the deal, based on the various elements so far in the public domain.

 

I fervently believe that neither Parry nor Moores would do anything to put the club in harms way - if some people can't see that then they're simply not looking hard enough and using the evidence in plenty they've already got.

[Andy @ Allerton]

More a case of stripping away the sentiment and emotion and looking at the logic of the deal, based on the various elements so far in the public domain.

 

I fervently believe that neither Parry nor Moores would do anything to put the club in harms way - if some people can't see that then they're simply not looking hard enough and using the evidence in plenty they've already got.

 

Still worrying though - you can never be sure what is around the corner - if, for instance we were bought in good faith by the Dubai people - then that is well and good - but if 5 years down the line we were sold to someone like Murdoch or an Abramovich - then would that be good?

[fyds]

Still worrying though - you can never be sure what is around the corner - if, for instance we were bought in good faith by the Dubai people - then that is well and good - but if 5 years down the line we were sold to someone like Murdoch or an Abramovich - then would that be good?

They don't have a history of 'selling on' - none of their acquired investments to date have been sold on. They are in it for the long haul and the prestige of the club, their business and their family - you can't put a price on thier sense of honour in these things. I've recently spoken to a few people who know more about them than I do, and they seem quite sure that down the line, the business and/or family will underline this investment and the success they want and expect for the club by investing in Liverpool as a city in some significant way. If this comes about, it would absolutely mark them out as opposites from Abramovich and Murdoch.

[Kite]

...

 

The takeover, I feel, is unfairly raising short term expectations as we a) will finally have the funds to compete against the other top clubs in europe (even though we won the CL with an unlikely squad including the Biscans, Traores, etc of this world) and thus success will be expected immediately amongst the fringe / firebrand phone in fans and b) the media who would love to whip up pressure on Rafa and his signings to shift sales / increase viewers.

 

Without investment we had the luxury of time in being a team in transit, being built both in the first team, the first team squad, and in our reserves and youth set-up.

 

With investment I fear that the focus will solely remain upon our first team's achievements without any context for investment in our youth set-up and in producing Rafa's legacy.

 

So basically, all I'm saying is this - we can't expect to maintain our traditions without patience. We can't expect to simply buy a league winning team without compromising our traditions. We can't expect others to appreciate our achievements with such funds at our disposal unless we avoid the January sales mentality at pre-Christmas prices. We must accept that the investment is within the club and not just the first 11. It's about being able to compete and build a legacy not getting a few high class lasses in for a couple of nights in may for some top class f***s....

 

I agree with the essence of what you say there Spike, and I take more pleasure from seeing a team play well and win than in seeing 11 individuals play for their perfume franchise (or whatever), but I think what you are saying is no longer all that relevant to the take over - it is already too late to expect patience from fans. You can see that in the number of comments on here that have attacked the new signings to the club, only a handful of months have passed and people are complaining about the lack of impact from Aurelio, Gonzalez, Pennant and Bellamy (to different degrees). Unrealistic expectations and low patience are already highly in evidence sadly, so we might as well be rich and endure s**** comments than be poor and have them!

[Andy @ Allerton]

They don't have a history of 'selling on' - none of their acquired investments to date have been sold on. They are in it for the long haul and the prestige of the club, their business and their family - you can't put a price on thier sense of honour in these things. I've recently spoken to a few people who know more about them than I do, and they seem quite sure that down the line, the business and/or family will underline this investment and the success they want and expect for the club by investing in Liverpool as a city in some significant way. If this comes about, it would absolutely mark them out as opposites from Abramovich and Murdoch.

 

That sounds good and as you've said I'm sure that the current owners of the club have looked into this and will do everything in their power to ensure that the club keeps its heart and its current 'feel'

 

I'm just having the heebie jeebies considering the pitfalls - we certainly don't want up to either be like or perceived like the Mancs or Chelsea (I'm not having a dig at either in this post) - we (When you talk to other fans) seem to be seen as a bit more honest and having a bit more about us and are certainly seen as different than the two clubs mentioned - and also I don't want us to fall into the pitfalls of being seen like Real Madrid/Baynern Munich or the like (Who are seen in the same sort of light as Chelsea and Manchester United)

 

We've always been a 'quiet' club that tends to get on with it without seeming to want to hog the limelight and being arrogant above other teams

 

Whatever our plans I feel we need to keep that air of quietness and dignity (Although I could well be in a minority of one in that?)

[fyds]

That sounds good and as you've said I'm sure that the current owners of the club have looked into this and will do everything in their power to ensure that the club keeps its heart and its current 'feel'

 

I'm just having the heebie jeebies considering the pitfalls - we certainly don't want up to either be like or perceived like the Mancs or Chelsea (I'm not having a dig at either in this post) - we (When you talk to other fans) seem to be seen as a bit more honest and having a bit more about us and are certainly seen as different than the two clubs mentioned - and also I don't want us to fall into the pitfalls of being seen like Real Madrid/Baynern Munich or the like (Who are seen in the same sort of light as Chelsea and Manchester United)

 

We've always been a 'quiet' club that tends to get on with it without seeming to want to hog the limelight and being arrogant above other teams

 

Whatever our plans I feel we need to keep that air of quietness and dignity (Although I could well be in a minority of one in that?)

 

I take your point, Andy - but to be honest I don't really give a flying one for what other clubs fans think and am more intersted in what WE actually know. There are at least as many non-LFC fans out there who hate us for no good reason as there are those who repect us - I doubt that will change much overall.

[Spike]

b) the media who would love to whip up pressure on Rafa and his signings to shift sales / increase viewers.

 

Without investment we had the luxury of time in being a team in transit, being built both in the first team, the first team squad, and in our reserves and youth set-up.

 

With investment I fear that the focus will solely remain upon our first team's achievements without any context for investment in our youth set-up and in producing Rafa's legacy.

 

Sorry to quote myself..

 

Learned today that several senior journos in the redtops are completely puzzled by the takeover. They can't get their heads around DIC buying us for £450m when there's little guarantee of a return on that investment from the club. To quote almost verbatim what I was told 'it's not like an Abramovich' where from what's already been said by DIC they won't be held to ransom on players and throw money unecessarilly at the club. Also that as Rashid Makthoum is mainly interested in horseracing as a sport it doesn't make any sense why he wants to buy the club.

 

Of course, if we did do what they expect under the DIC ownership we'd be accused of losing the traditions of the game, of our club, won't someone think of the traditions etc plus they seem to be completely ignoring the fact that it's the offshoot benefit in raising Dubai as a tourism destination amongst many others.

 

Anyway, the knives are being sharpened.

[Andy @ Allerton]

Sorry to quote myself..

 

Learned today that several senior journos in the redtops are completely puzzled by the takeover. They can't get their heads around DIC buying us for £450m when there's little guarantee of a return on that investment from the club. To quote almost verbatim what I was told 'it's not like an Abramovich' where from what's already been said by DIC they won't be held to ransom on players and throw money unecessarilly at the club. Also that as Rashid Makthoum is mainly interested in horseracing as a sport it doesn't make any sense why he wants to buy the club.

 

Of course, if we did do what they expect under the DIC ownership we'd be accused of losing the traditions of the game, of our club, won't someone think of the traditions etc plus they seem to be completely ignoring the fact that it's the offshoot benefit in raising Dubai as a tourism destination amongst many others.

 

Anyway, the knives are being sharpened.

 

I fail to see how the knives pointed at LFC by the media could be any sharper - it's almost like they've got a strange Manchester / London Favouritism - strange from press based in London and Manchester

[Guest Cardie]

Alot of peoples concerns tend to focus on things that have already happened.

 

Glory Hunters - We won the CL if that hasn't brought them in nothing will. Every game we play there's a post about the lack of atmosphere or daytrippers etc etc.

 

Expectations - The expectation has always been to win the league, you only need take a look at the posts from the summer for evidence.

 

Youth - We hardly have a great record of bringing youth through in recent times and most of those that might make it have been bought for alot of cash (Anderson, Hobbs etc). Your youth policy is only as good as the players available to you and for the top clubs the bar has been raised with regards to the level a players has to acheive

[Andy @ Allerton]

Alot of peoples concerns tend to focus on things that have already happened.

 

Glory Hunters - We won the CL if that hasn't brought them in nothing will. Every game we play there's a post about the lack of atmosphere or daytrippers etc etc.

 

Expectations - The expectation has always been to win the league, you only need take a look at the posts from the summer for evidence.

 

Youth - We hardly have a great record of bringing youth through in recent times and most of those that might make it have been bought for alot of cash (Anderson, Hobbs etc). Your youth policy is only as good as the players available to you and for the top clubs the bar has been raised with regards to the level a players has to acheive

 

Wasn't Anderson Swapped for Welsh for free?

[Guest Cardie]

Wasn't Anderson Swapped for Welsh for free?

 

There was no cash involved but they weren't exactly free.