Davvo

Not too sure about that. The bad run in terms of results, coincided with him starting to play 2 holding mids in Barry and De Jong. Prior to that he'd been very much 4-3-3, with a flat midfield 3 and noone playing a solid holding role, 2 of Tevez/Bellamy/Robinho/Petrov supporting the central striker. I really think it's the form of the likes of Bridge/Lescott/Richards that has hurt them the most. The underutilisation of Ireland this season hasn't helped in my opinion either. He was their most dangerous attacking threat last season, and he's struggled to find a spot for him in some of his formation's this year.

Indeed, it was a gamble which as far as this season is concerned has very nearly failed. I say very nearly, because we are certainly not out of contention for a CL spot. However, if things continue in the same vein, we may be praying for top 5 sides to win the FA Cup and League Cup, in order to get in the UEFA at all. I've gone from resolutely optimistic to desperately worried in the space of a couple of weeks. I do just wonder if Masch's red card yesterday, could perversely be the point at which our fortune turns. You'd imagine there has to be a change in system and/or deployment of certain players/positions, as throwing Spearing in as a direct replacement is not likely to help things. Is Aquilani fit ? (and by that I mean available to be selected, I realise he's not yet 100% match fit)

Things started going wrong when Mourinho started playing 4 centre mid's. He had his success when they played with width, but he definitely became more conservative for whatever reason. Abramovich is playing footie manager, and there was no way he was going to watch turgid football, win, draw or lose.

Newcastle

The argument was are they now better, and I think it's quite clear that they are. If we're judging managers purely on trophies won in the last couple of years, that's not really going to help your argument too much.

Don't get me wrong, the club brings it upon themselves. The manager though is quite clearly in a thankless position, just as he is at Real or Barca. Spending gazillions does not guarantee success, it's a team game and you need a little time to gel a team together. They didn't give Klinsman nearly long enough, and to suggest Van Gaal's position was in doubt is even more ridiculous. I think Robben and Ribery have missed large parts of the season so far too ?

That's as much down to the nonsense that surrounds the Bayern brand as anything else. It's like a circus. The German league is in a healthy state, in terms of having a decent number of competitive teams, and the expectation on Bayern is utterly ridiculous, just as it is on Barca/Real.

Chelsea are in a better position now than when Mourinho left. He'd lost the plot a bit, and started to set up very negatively, they weren't at all pretty to watch in the last 6 months or so of his reign. They've been the best team in the league to date this season, only 4 months I know, although they do face a tough month or two I feel. The point being, Chelsea were right to let him go, they needed a change of direction.

Maybe not, my point being that I'd wager he'd take on the challenge, if he was actually looking for a change at all. So would any manager worth their salt. The current squad is more than talented enough to finish top 4, and to challenge for the title.

Not quite no, but his management skills belong at a similar level. The longer Hughes stayed at City, the greater our chances of staying ahead of them, investment or no investment. Of course, there's no telling how Mancini will go about fitting the collection of individuals at his disposal, into a cohesive unit, hopefully it takes him a while.

I think that's plainly untrue, and a way of thinking brought about by people buying into the modern day money obsession in football. Any top manager would jump at the chance to work with our current squad. There may be other considerations, the most pressing being how happy they are doing what they are now. If Hiddink was interested in another top club job, he wouldn't hesitate to come to us I'm sure. The real question with him is how motivated he is to free himself from his association with Roman's Empire.

Ah, so you're just dismissing it then ? If nobody was going to pay 18 million for Barry, then nobody was going to get him, and they didn't. The fee of 12 million in 09 is very much in line with a price tag of 18 a year earlier. Barry may well have been the higher priority, but unless Rafa could get someone to buy the incumbent in his position, it was never going to happen.

I'm not sure you can be so black and white with your red's and yellow's to be honest. Masch's tackle was a potential leg breaker, horribly over the ball with studs showing. It was also petulant, and at a time when both he and Torres were looking to burn off some frustration, at the admittedly s**** reffing, aswell as our ineffectual play. If the ref see's it, it's a red no question. If he is blindsided and doesn't quite see the severity, then it's not even a yellow.

I disagree, I think the overwhelming majority of people daring to criticise, are indeed giving due consideration to the first 5 years. They are just wondering out loud if perhaps this isn't much more than a blip, and whether the unthinkable of replacing him might actually be of benefit. Personally, I think it would be of benefit in the short term, but I would still fear for the medium and long term. I can't think of anyone better than Rafa, and would much prefer he at least showed signs of trying to make something happen, which is of course what would happen with a new man coming in. Rafa seems to want to 'sit it out', and it's reaching a point where you have to wonder when are things going to turn around.

Presumably that would form part of the discussion muleskinner mentioned ? Which is what is happening, no ?

You're free to believe the snippets you choose, but you're being at best forgetful with regards to Xabi. He was being touted around for a price that would allow us to meet Villa's asking price of 18 million. It was a simple case of Rafa wanting Barry rather than Xabi. Using the fact that Barry went a year later for 12 million, with 1 year left on contract, proves how selective you are being really.

This content is not viewable to guests.

The system would be fine with different personnel, the personnel would be fine with a different system.

It's not your refusal to 'join the mob' that baffles me, it's the fact that you are so overly defensive. That's usually the case when people just refuse to see what's happening. If you're backing Rafa just because you don't want to join 'the masses', that's your prerogative, but some of your opinions and views are so out of left field, and completely contrary to the evidence at hand. Obviously not worth debating as such, because you're still a long, long way from being able to see that the current performances of the team, and the decisions made by Rafa, need questioning. Your reasoning re Xabi is like something out of a comic to be honest.

You're starting to come across as Rafa's secret love child or something you really are. There have been decent, well considered opinions put out on this board in criticism of Rafa, and the number of people speaking out is growing with each week, a few more turning today it would seem. You can't keep slagging people off for having these opinions, they're more than entitled to them. If you are really so bored of reading stuff you don't like, would it not be better to ignore it ? For the record, Rafa did ditch Xabi. The fact that noone wanted Xabi in the summer of 08, and he therefore had to knuckle down and play himself into a move (not difficult for him seeing as he loves the club and his teammates), doesn't suddenly equate to him ditching us. With the exception of one or two posters, most of those expressing criticism are doing so with no little reluctance, and out of exasperation. Their numbers are growing as more and more people reach a tipping point. If you haven't reached that point yet, fine, but some of the head in sand stuff you're spouting is far more ludicrous, and nonsensical, than anything I've seen Mr Biscan write* *That bit may or may not be true, it's a reasonable comparison at this point.

MFletcher's explanation was clearer, especially as it used actual football related theories. Still, nice analogy

Indeed. He doesn't appear to be the kind of guy that can suck it up and instill confidence in demoralised players. His press comments when things go badly depress me, maybe he's totally different with the players, but he just looks like he's stuck in a corner, covering up, and throwing out jabs. His substitutions at the moment carry the same message too. It's all too serious and defensive at the moment. We almost look scared to play. I think he should throw a party for the squad at his house. Get everyone s***faced, strippers the lot.

This content is not viewable to guests.

He's made mistakes, and they arguably cost him medals and the England scoring record. His loss. He's clearly more interested in his horses, and although I enjoyed watching him score many important goals for us, he's an irrelevance now quite frankly, not using any of my energy in hating him. As for not caring what Liverpool fans thought, I think he's still reeling from the shock of getting a bad reception when he came back to Anfield with the barcodes. I'm quite sure he'd have convinced himself he'd get a good reception, despite the fact large sections of our support never really warmed to him annyway (which was odd). I just hope he doesn't win any more points for the Mancs, he's already responsible for 2 points against City.

Like you said in another thread, players regularly lie and tell fans what they want to hear.