uncle bob

It is your over-simplification of things to suit your anti-Hicks agenda that is also getting tiresome. What new owners?. Do you have someone in mind who is willing to pay the asking price. That is not only over simplification but dillusional. To avoid real debate you keep trotting out my so called 'pro-Hicks agenda'. That is also rubbish as I have said on may occasions, plague on both their houses, but you have some strange insight into the board, that Parry is essential for the well being of the club. More ill informed rubbish from a would be director. Hicks and Gillett own the club and neither is going to leave until they are ready. Parry has been responsible for procrastination, regarding numerous transfer dealings in the past. Parry is strongly supported by Gillett who IMHO is a bigger pr**K than Hicks, but neither should be running the club. Accept that G&H will not be push out by 'fan power' and then you may be able to move on to more constructive comments on hopes/changes for the club moving forward. Who do you wish to stay if it comes to a choice, Rafa or Parry because sides appear to have been taken on this issue, else why Rafa's recent comments.

More ill informed speculation, and who guarantees any loans. At the moment Rafa and Hicks appear to have a good working relationship. The current problem at the club as stated by Rafa is Parry, who as reported on earlier threads and in the media, is supported by Gillett. If Parry remains IMHO Rafa will leave. If its true Parry's contract is not to be renewed in 2009, then I can see a year of paralysis and in fighting. It then will depend if Rafa will want to remain, which I doubt but agree only my opinion. Joint managers didnt work and 50-50 owners won't either. As Hicks is unlikely to leave before Stadium built I just hope Gillett goes, and goes soon.

The way the split is now opening again within the clubs senior management. unless Parry goes and we buy Barry, irrespective of the merits of the case, IMHO I believe Rafa will see this season out and in all probability leave. If reports are to be believed, and they are pretty widespread, it is impossible for a club to move forward affectively without unity at all levels. Rafa has threatened on several occasions his willingness to quit unless backed. He has also been critical of Parry's procrastination in finalising transfers. There must come a time when he cries 'wolf' for the last time. Some have expressed support for Parry, because of either their belief in Alonso, or their belief that G&H will ruin the club if he leaves. IMO they are mistaken, Parry has been seen by many as a pompous failure as CE even before the arrival of the Americans and the only reason he remains is as a pawn for Gillett. I believe if he remains, its a racing certainty that Rafa will leave at the end of the season if not before. The merits of Alonso v Barry are inconsequentially, now, it appears to have become a battle of wills. They will both try to appeal indirectly to the fans, Rafa by off the record briefings to 'friends' and Parry by trying to exploit the fans division over the Barry/Alonso debate and PR meetings with SoS. For Rafa to stay Parry has to go and go soon

Based upon newspaper reports only i.e. if they can be believed. It appears that the old anamosity of Rafa to Parry has resurfaced. The club appears spilt with Rafa and Hicks on one side and Parry, Moores and Gillett on the other. Rafa has gone on record as saying he spoke to MON in April, therefore the Barry transfer fiasco can only be laid at RP door. Yes he works for G&H but as CEO he has a lot of authority at the club. My concerns are that Parry may be better at office politics than Rafa and coupled with the purported power struggle at the club, Gillett may consider it in his long term interest to keep Parry on board and risk losing Rafa. Very worrying times ahead, which is crazy when you consider the merits of both Alonso or Barry and regardless of which side of the arguement you fall, there isnt a great deal between them.

Who?

When 'peace in our time' broke out earlier in the year, wasn't Rafa assured (or atleast widely reported) he would have a greater say in the transfer policy due to his concerns at the speed Parry was taking in finalising deals? Couldn't it just be a case of Parry playing office politics. Again uninformed speculation, but if Parry interfering in a negative way with Rafa's transfer proposals, we may end up with Parry out lasting Rafa at the club.

God forbid. I am totally opposed to SoS long term or ultimate aims, for the rest I have no problem (as they appear on SoS web site) Bob 2

Typical of SoS supporters, always seeing conspiracies where none exist. Some days I just cannot be bothered spell checking etc. The point regarding Keane is a valid one, in so much as I would prefer a class wide player if funds are limited, based on recent performances. Ideally as previously posted I would prefer both. Best Wishes Uncle Bob 1, 2 or is it 3 P.S. I noticed KH failed to respond to comments relating to open aims of SoS and the real aims, obviously more concerned with conspiracies.

My apologises, I assumed the aims as outlined on the SoS web page was the current position. I was unaware that there was an hidden agenda, separate from their publicly stated aims. Therefore were it states in the published SoS aims "To create long lasting relationships with all aspects of Liverpool FC’s supporting community", should we assume that the hidden agenda includes, 'preference to be give to local supporters'. p.s.Can we have the real Knox Harrington back please. The grammar in your first sentence is not up to its usual high standard.

But Rafa 'loves him'

Get Crown back - we won a great deal more with them. Simple boycott will ensure they don't do anything so stupid again. It shouldn't be difficult its crap lager

This taken from SoS web site so no confusion Constant Aims To represent the best interests of our members and by extension the best interests of the supporters of Liverpool Football Club on both the local and international level. To hold whoever owns the football club to account. Short Term Aims To institute a functioning structure for the Spirit Of Shankly. To create long lasting relationships with all aspects of Liverpool FC’s supporting community. To improve the quality of service for Liverpool FC's supporters. To improve the standard and value of travel arrangements for Liverpool FC’s supporters. Medium Term Aims To work with any relevant agencies to improve the area of Anfield. To build links with grassroots supporter groups both home and abroad. Long Term Aim To bring about supporter representation at board room level. Ultimate Aim Supporter ownership of Liverpool Football Club. Agreed back in june aim was to replace G&H but since then aims appear to have changed

Maybe its because SoS has dropped its immediate aim from G&H out to 'holding the owners accountable' which is a more realistic aim and less confrontational

After watching last nights rubbish (pepe excluded) it is still apparent that the club is crying out for a quality winger and has been for years. Rafa has tried numerous cut price options resulting in all his winger purchases having been either rubbish or the width being provided by players playing out of position. Rafa hit on a perfect attacking option with Gerrard playing behind Torres, but what happens, we pay approx £20m for a 28 year old striker who isnt as good an option to the Gerrard/Torres combination. I accept that Keane is a good player but IMO he is not as good as Gerrard, to play in the hole. I also appreciate funds are tight but our need for a class winger out weighs the need for Keane or another CM player even some one as versatile as Barry. Ideally it would be great to have Keane, Barry and a class winger - but Rafa should press for funding not for Barry but a class natural winger. Who - I don't know but that's why Rafa as a large scouting system. Bentley was an option who else I don't know but they must be out there. Last night also demonstrated how easy it was to negate Alonso's game with a constant physical approach. Hurry back Masch.

The SoS policy/imediate aims of 'Yanks out' as outline in their posting of the 26 June 2008 has now been changed to holding the owners to account.

So you are saying SoS understood that this policy was thought through and regardless of the fact it would alienate a large number of fans (as can be seen by the responses to this thread) they still thought it a good idea.

For a fledgling organisation such as SoS maybe being selective and focused would encourage greater participation. Also thinking through the ramifications of policies before acting, as demonstrated by the various points raised in this thread would also help.

And I thought you just had to ask uncle Tom or uncle George and they got you in. Ticketing is an important issue but not necessarily this issue raised by SoS - it does appear to alienate a large number of potential supporters.

Not if you select subjects that can alienate such a large number of potential supporters.

so we have to wear special necklaces now to be a fan to go with our tattoos and bedspreads

Maybe if SoS focused solely on the apparent financial behaviour of G&H they would garner more support and possible more success. But adopting a scatter gun approach dilutes the support and as can be seen from the number of postings to this thread, SoS can alienate potential supporters.

Someone who cares deeply about the club. If they live a long way away or have limited funds that prevent them going on a regular basis for me they are still fans

Does anybody know the percentage of OOT fans compared to local fans. Taking into account our world wide support (which is essential for the club to grow), the OOT's must considerably out number local fans. Also please define OOT's - Do locals only count if they are within the city boundary or L post code?

Also in terms of maintaining a key core of local kids supporting the team, if such an area was allocated to the new ground, it would be in the interests of the club to give tickets away via schools, local kids football teams. They in turn could raffle the tickets and raise much needed funds. Everyone's a winner as it gives children greater opportunity to see their heroes, excellent PR for the club and at the same time developing future fans/customers.

Once again we should thank Gunga Din for forcing a debate on another SoS proposal. It appears day by day the need for SoS is diminishing. Its original intention was the removal of G&H, then following its meetings a raft of other aims were introduced. Therefore it appears any time the club make any proposal SoS or the supporters are the first to attack it. Liverpool FC needs both local and OT supporters and the clubs proposal on the face of it seems a good idea. Addressing the need for affordable/available seating for children, maybe if SoS drop their boycott of speaking to G&H it could be possible for them to raise the question of a small area of the new ground be allocated for children only, properly stewarded at reduced prices much in the way the old boys pen was available to me as a child. ps- For those who care please excuse grammar and spelling