Kite

Zaphod Beeblebrox always looked to be in two minds.

Yes

Don't see what's the issue with selling Garcia. Rafa himself has been alluding to the need for Garcia to improve his game and his consistency. Obviously, if he fails to do that in the coming months, Rafa will consider letting him go, especially if there are players definitely coming in for wing and attacking positions.

Thanks for that. All sounds very well. Sensible. Good felling to support a club being run well and certainly sounds like we are building well for the future. Or as Kev would say: "We're doomed, D O O MED I tell ya!!! ( )

Injured for a while there. Not sure if he's fit yet, didn't play in the reserves either recently? Pity if he's not Like to see Kronkamp given a go on the right with Stevie in the middle. Thoughts of seeing Dmiji back in the middle gives me shivers, we'll need to score - I'm sure they will...

There's an example here of the bad side of zonal marking, when too many players try and mark the same space. As you can clearly see, two spurs players are just completely free ... http://www.cpfc.premiumtv.co.uk/javaImages...3~533009,00.jpg

You are still wrong. there's three men, not two. Luisao was actually in the wall when the kick was about to be taken. Finnan has a player all of his own who then doesn't make a complete run. Luisao makes a break from the wall and someone, can't see who is there exactly, points to him but just lets him run leaving three of their men to then attack Hyypia and Finnan. Hyypia however, as I keep repeating, makes the (once off) mistake of playing the man instead of ball when the ball arrives in his space. Quite a good free kick actually. I wish we'd do that sometimes

Don't think he should be in midfield really but what's with him, he's been well off his game for some time now?

Ah yeah, I know But what I mean is that you aim to play the ball - you contest it at least. If there's more than one opponent it doesn't matter, it all about contesting for possession in that space that you have responsibility for, leaving other players on your team to look after the second ball etc

That was my point - Finnan was not man marking. He was marking the space in front of Hyypia. The ball was played over his head (where Hyypia was) but Hyypia elected to try let the ball run out of play. Unfortunately he wasn't strong enough to achieve that.

Just play the ball! It doesn't matter how many players there are if you go and play the ball. Sami's mistake was to try play the man. The mistakes we have made in zonal marking have been where too many players try play the ball instead of the player with responsibility for that "zone" (and thereby leaving other zones unguarded) or players not challenging for the ball in their zone with committment. Last night was just an error of judgement (not committment) I think on Sami's part in trying to play man not ball.

It's pretty farcical to go away in the quarter finals of the Champ League, to a hostile stadium, and not believe a lock out is not a good result, actually. However, to say we defend too much is overly simplistic - defenders defend when the ball is in their half, if the ball had been retained in the opposition half, with any regularity last night, there would have been less defending going on!

I don't see how it could be Finnan's fault at all - you're not seriously suggesting that Finnan, who isn't the best header of the ball, was supposed to mark their best header of the ball? I think you are getting distracted by the fact that there were two Benfica player at the back post and two Liverpool players in a similar area. It is likely that our players were marking the space where the ball was being aimed - the ball got played to Sami's space, behind Finnan, but Sami got out muscled in trying to hold off the player attacking the ball. As I said, if you see the replay from behind the kicker, it is Hyypia who is running with Luisao and is actually initially ahead of him. Unfortunately he decides to use that position to block off Luisao but fails to do that and falls. Leaving Luisao with an easy header.

Doesn't make any sense what you are saying, at all.

If you see the replay of the incident from behind the free taker, it becomes clear that it was Sami's fault sadly. He is beside (and hence marking Luisao) and starts actually slightly ahead of Luisao but then, rather than play the ball, he slows and tries to block off Luisao, probably intending to let the ball go out wide. However, Luisao is able to push past, leaving Hyypia crumbling, and gets a free header. If Hyypia had gone to play the ball he either would have cleared successfully or at least challenged for the ball, probably enough to prevent Luisao having such an easy opportunity. What struck me is that if it had been Carra instead of Hyypia I think it wouldn't have been a goal as I've rarely seen Carra do anything other than play the ball in situations like that. It was an error but probably the only one he made. Its hugely f***ing frustrating we got punished for it. (And, of course, bugger all to do with Man Marking).

Agree, defence was essentially excellent with Finnan being the outstanding one tonight. Garcia looked like he hadn't played in ages, everything about his game was off. Very surprised Rafa left him on, he was offering us nothing and carrying a yellow card too. Kewell and Hamann surprisingly poor after many a good game recently. Fowler looked a bit out of depth at that level (for the moment anyhow).

Strange game really. We were very solid and professional but had a few key under-performers that meant our defence was constantly in possession of the ball. Eventually, one error from Hyypia cost us. Which is a shame to lay blame there as otherwise he was excellent. However, the key was the way we lost possession so easily going forward - after an excellent game on Saturday, Hamann was oddly at fault there a lot, Kewell seemed totally hap-hazard and Garcia was just shocking at times, looking like a player who hadn't played all season. Up front Fowler and Morientes seemed to spend too much time too far from each other. Whether that was a plan that mis-fired I don't know but neither seemed able to find the other significantly. But Benfica played a very high energy game, as did we, and the game deserved to end all square really, each team cancelling the other. At anfield, they have something to defend so we need to get at them early and make them nervous. We need Gerrard and Sissoko fit, ideally, getting in among them and probably could do with having Crouch on to give the attack some sort of outlet. We'll see - very disappointing but only half way afterall and without those two players tonight who could make a significant impact next time, it's hard to judge how the next half will turn out.

me too?

Brought to you by BSPI* *British Society for the Promotion of Insomnia

He owns a Vauxhall Corsa, souped up, with some of the naffest pedals you'll ever see. A Fowler CL shirt, a Gerrard CL shirt plus some porn. Apparently.

I think its the balance that is all wrong, not just the front men but to a degree with the midfield also: Crouch and Moro are too slow and similar to play together, they will both drop deep and look to link with someone else running into space etc. Bringing Cisse on has proved beyond doubt that Cisse is a major disappointment, without any real footballing intelligence to get into profitable positions or the general endevour and all round workrate to pull defences out of shape to leave spaces for Moro etc. Moro on his own has suffered from sluggish support from midfield - he needs energetic players running out of midfield and that really means Gerrard in the middle, or perhaps Zenden. Garcia I've always thought would make the best partner or, perhaps more so, Gerrard: Moro needs someone who can play intelligently beside him to create space, move into space and feed off Moro's distribution. Until we sort out right wing, this imbalance will remain I think, though the effect of Fowler getting fit has yet to be judged. If we are to lose a striker this summer, Cisse would be the first candidate on my list - I still see potential in Morientes.

Well I'm 38 and I've "Alonso" on my CL shirt...

I'd agree with that. People frequently over-look players that keep the team's engine moving in favour of players that finish off games. Some of the daft remarks floating about regarding Alonso and Morientes are testimony to that. But the first person that came to my mind was Hyypia, who last season I thought was basically on his last legs but this season has continued to raise his game and has looked committed and consistent. Also think Finnan is a really great player, intelligent, consistent, skillful, but who will never get the plaudits generally because right-back is, as obvious as it may be, not a central position. Be interesting some day to do a survey and see if any 'player of the year' anywhere played in that position but I'd agree if he were to be nominated. Gerrard didn't come to my mind at all - he's scored some fabulous goals and been brilliant in certain games but I didn't think he performed with real consistency over the season, especially lately. He went through a real purple patch pre-Japan but I'm still waiting to see him display that kind of drive again. So, at the moment, my vote would go to Hyypia.

I don't see how any of your points are relevant really - as said numerous times already, the "tiredness" argument isn't just about athleticism in players, or about injuries - which is what you seem to be implying? Players played on worse pitches years ago and there was mad tackles flying in. But they also spent a good deal of a game walking rather than running and, in general, as mentioned above, there was less daily pressure on them: their lifestyle was not regimented in the same way as it is today for top class players.