Archangel

My guess is that we do get fourth and thats it for the season but I hope for much more - beating Inter would be nice

Completely trivial response. In terms of substance he would be a worthy replacement and most of us realize that whether we like to or not Bad result, if Everton had won would have been worse Blame can be put on a variety of factors, but success on the pitch is solely Rafas responsibility With our current financial position this run of performances would be extremely damaging One might say loyalty (to the Manager) is now a rather expensive luxury 17 points behind is awful, like the treble season with Houllier, we've never kicked on post Istanbul

Shrewd businessman, realises the pitfalls of the premiership with the resources he has at his disposal. A lesson Gillette and Hicks should have taken before they jumped in

158000 views, 3500 posts and we are still arguing ...........jeez

Excellent Manager, under alot of of pressure, impressive track record, completely dedicated to Liverpool, appears to have good relationships with the players, has lots of idiosyncracies but doubt remains that he'll ever win the title. Why, dont know sorry cant tell you, nothing technical missing just this feeling that we play with fear, too cautious. Apologies if that upsets the Champs managers and purists but its as simple as that. Knockout stuff we are solid on we hold our nerve and line, they blink first and we do them - we win cups but for the same reason we handicap our chances of winning the league Thats the only explanation I can come up with otherwise its emotional - he's our Manager and I support him despite my reservations

I dont want to spend too much time on this really but how do you know Parry didnt ask these questions, how do you know these concerns werent raised with Hicks at the time and convincing answers provided. How do you know that those business failures where down to Hicks or the result of other partners or conditions impacting at the time Part of the problem of all this is that issues are getting clouded by people taking up cudgels on snippets of information which they are fed or access for themselves. Whilst its all good conspiracy and internet banter fodder, in reality you are making a whole lot of assumptions on events you could not possibly have any real knowledge of and deprived of that, your opinions are primarily based your own supposition and prejudice - which to be fair probably applies to me as well Without any certainty I dont think we should be witch hunting our cheif exec,

Frankly after the turmoil of the last few months, I would have thought the previous 16 years of exemplary stewardship would count for something. David Moores has been a decent servant to this Club, I dont think that comment is deserved and I dont think you really mean it Whether we sold out to Shinawatra/Hicks/Morgan/DIC the issues we face now would probably be similar one way or another, the problem is that we are expecting a brand new stadium and a huge transfer budget whilst retaining the old club values (low ticket prices etc etc). Cant be done - something had to give

I can't see anything to reproach him personally for, yes he f***ed up perhaps, but hindsight is a gift only available to those who dont have to make decisions. Like the clown references though - quite apt really

What motivated Moores to sell to G&H is irrelevant to my point I was merely expressing the point that whilst we are unhappy that Hicks has been less than transparent our apparent new found saviours were not exactly upfront with the club either. My problem is not so much that I'm comfortable with Hicks owning the club or that I'm anti DIC, neither statements are true, but this is a debate that has lacked any perspective and the sharp practice that has apparently so infuriated the fans is nothing short of what has always gone on or is part and parcel of the sort of business dynamic which we were shot into when we left the paternalistic care of David Moores We were frustrated under Moores with the lack of business edge and competitiveness, we ridiculed parry;s blundering attempts to get the stadium off the ground, we longed for a new cutting edge that would enable us to compete with united and now we've got our wish, we are spitting out our collective dummies because there's a financial price to pay and consequent risk In some ways and as ironic as it may seem the pressure which is now on the Club to perform might actually prove to be a catalyst to success - I realise that is probably over optimistic but the compulsion to succeed should focus everyones mind a bit more now at every level - board and field

Well as about 99% of this thread is based on wafer thin speculation and hearsay I thought I'd contribute in the same vein However, and forgive me if I'm wrong, but I do seem to remember at the time we were in negotiations with the Arabs information about their exit strategy coming to light which put the mockers on their bid. Good and proper business strategy perhaps but didnt go down well on this forum at the time and it certainly wasnt something DIC were open and honest about either Food for thought thou

I believe it, rather I believe that Hicks believe's in it, whether thats the way it will all eventually pan out is an entirely different matter What I find a bit odd is that Hicks is vilified so much, he's accused of being deceitful and then when he;s open he's accused of washing dirty linen in public. I suspect much of this is rooted in frustration at our lack of success and so issues with the owners becomes the easy target particularly when it seems they are not giving the manager carte blanche, but there are others within the club who need to take responsibility for that too, players and managers alike For the moment we finally have a 70000 seat stadium in the offing, public backing for the manager an agreement to secure the signing of mascherano and the debt partially shared between investor and club, if thats just pr I'd like to see what gets delivered if he ever means business. Without being stupid what more can the man feasibly do Without an abramovich style sugar daddy just what the f*** were people really expecting Welcome to the new reality - we asked for it

At least he cares

The first question to ask is could we fill a 90000 stadium on a regular basis to justify the extra cost I dont think we could so we would be paying for a half empty ground

No. Another 2.5 seasons of unconditional support is unacceptable. I know the row and Paco's departure has been extremely damaging and for the most part Benitez has been fantastic in how he's coped, but thats not the full story and there were worrying signs in our European qualifiers and early league games before any of the flack kicked off He deserves another season, he needs another number 2. but you draw the line somewhere. I'm not asking for the league title, I just want to be convinced that the gap has closed and our season lasts longer than mid jan everything else I'm prepared to wait for If we cant get that next season we have to accept the fact that it probably wont happen for him

but why go and ruin a perfectly good conspiracy theory

I take it as a sign of mutual respect. One professional to another. At the end of the day they are both good managers and have a common bond in the profession they both follow If fans here wish to take it as a negative so be it, I couldn't say i blame you but I genunely think that on this occasion you would be wide of the mark

If you ask me the main problem is mental We dont think we can win, we dont win We all sense it, if we've no confidence we can hold or extend a narrow margin, neither do the players Then becomes a vicious circle I'm not convinced about the rotation arguement - think thats overblown - these players are not strangers

You see I struggle with that The Arsenal squad is young athletic and talented, they play a slick pass and move game beautifully structured by Wenger and a brand of football which is genuinely exciting. Most of all its emerging talent crafted from their youth development programs and this season they do seem a bit more solid against the grunts of the lower mid table Chelsea play functional, effective football, structured to grind out results at any cost. Ruthless, professional but lacking any romance at all. Talent purchased by cheque book. Personal loyalties prevent me from celebrating them winning the league but of the current top three Arsenal are easily the least worst option

and if Benitez had suddenly upped sticks and joined Real we'd probably slagged them off for failing to have a back up option. I'm not a great fan of these guys, in fact I think I've mentioned before that I think they look out of their depth, but this is nothing new, we were fishing aroiund for a new manager months before we got rid of Houllier I suspect alot of what drives this latest anger at Hicks is frustration because the pair are being financially prudent at a time when credit is scarce and we have major financial commitments on the horizon = isnt that what we need I know the downsides but consider in their favour a) There's been no hike in ticket prices which I certainly expected when the takeover was first anounced b) We are still commited to a new 60k seater stadium c) That commitment is still for a stadium in Anfield and not shared d) Several key players were signed up on new contracts at the start of the season at considerable cost e) Benitez was able to bring in several new first team players and a host of young talent f) and then special mention for our first signing in ages of a truly world class talent - Fernando Torres As yet there's no indication that Mascherano will not be offered a new contract and no affirmative confirmation that Benitez will be leaving other than press speculation (thats if you take Hicks statement at face value) If the team is underperforming, thats not G&H's fault. If Benitez goes off on one and starts acting a bit eccentric like so publicly thats not their fault either I dont like this situation, communication is obviously poor, mistakes have been made, money is plainly tight and the Americans have probably (well definitely) underestimated the scale of the necessary commitment but we are kidding ourselves if we think everything can be acheived in one season under these guys or anyone else short of an Abramovich Hysterical over reaction is a farce and we'll become a mockery if there are demonstations etc. Its not wonderful but its not all bad either. Lots of talk about giving Managers time but we seem to want this pair out within months. Personally i think its only fair to give them another 18 months thats if they dont sell up before - after all they are learning the business as much as anyone else. After that and if things are still botched then spit the dummies out We'll have to get use to Hicks - I personally doubt either will throw the towel in

Can't see the Americans cutting loose, their problems are raising cash in the immediate term and they could resolve that by bringing in another investor - its an option for them at least. They may sell up, but it would be a bit of a humiliation to them and I cant see it going that way unless the alledged interest from DIC was very substantial - and why would that be

I really really hope not Its emough of a pantomime already without that sort of thing kicking off

Not so odd though, he does run a consultancy firm in the states I'm pinning my hopes on the fact that the guy wouldn't want to leave 'sunny california' I hope so because he has absolutely nothing to offer thiss club

I'm not ashamed that we refused, but one thing I often here said on here is how other clubs/fans lack class. Well in refusing to give Luton a windfall I dont think we've exactly covered ourselves in glory have we. £200k or whatever is still chicken feed to us in comparative terms

Accepted You'll get no more criticism from me for whatever thats worth I've misjudged him through my own frustration. He deserves more time to get things right.

Valid point on the face of it but not necessarily applicable in all cases. City got rid of Stuart Pearce, Eriksson's (sp) came in and has hit the ground running - best season for City in donkey's years and he practically rebuilt the squad within weeks. Might be a house of cards at Eastlands but the arguement that change can't be immediately beneficial is not conclusive. Benitez has to be judged on performance, I think he'd understand that and I think he understands that expectations at this club are extremely high. So far he has proved to be highly successful at making us a team at the quality end difficult to beat, but to win the league we need to be confident and comfortable at opening the game up and playing a more adventurous style. We can do it, I've seen matches this season which show we can do it, but we're not confident and I think that reflects the fact that this is not Benitez's primary instinct. I'm more than happy enough with what he's acheived but if we are looking for the title, I dont think Rafa will acheive it as he is whilst Managers like Ferguson and Wenger are our rivals.