Mikey

Well you say that to anyone but the most 'Rose-tinted' Liverpool fan and you will as well. Thommo can't come out on Sky and say "That's it for another season" can he? But it is and everyone knows it! 12 points behind - with a game in hand - and the top 3 to play away after taking 2 points out of 9 against them at home! CL qualification is by no means certain for next season yet.

No news on Momo going or anyone arriving - sources are so cr@p these days.

You know this or is it part of the general wind up???

He's hardly prolific is he??? I think Masch is a better player for us than Alonso, and our defence is so sound because the whole team defends and we defend deeper than the other top sides due to lack of pace in our defenders mate. We also suffer when attacking because our fullbacks aren't as fast or attackminded as those of our rivals and the strikers are usually too far away from our 'deeper' defence to support properly.

So would we all right now I suspect, but we're currently 5th and I'll bet you £50 to the HJC we finish below 3rd this season???

About the same actually and its pretty obvious who got the best deal out of it as well. Unless of course goals and assists don't count as much as running around like a f***ing Nutter.

I see what you're saying but playing 4-3-3 with HK and Pennant in the front 3 is bloody ridiculous, don't get Kaizer on how often Pennant scores. Chelsea won the league twice with 2 defensive midfielders but their wide players - Duff/Robben/Cole/SWP all carry far more threat than HK & Pennant. Their fullbacks were/are far superior to ours in an attacking sense as well- Man U, Arsenal & Chelsea all have fullbacks far better at attacking than ours and they are all fast as f*** so can get back as well. They also play lampard almost totally free of defensive duties and with license to shoot on sight. I'm not against 4-3-3 per se, but as already mentioned on here Chelsea played it every game home and away. Firstly we didn't have the players out there to play it effectively, secondly we change our tactics from game to bloody game. Said on here loads of times, in the PL against everyone at home and almost everyone away we should send out our recognised best team and say "There you go, see what you can do against that lot" - but Rafa Doesn't/Won't. Anyway I'm not looking for a row, just massively p1ssed off - AGAIN!

4-5-1 at home against Wigan, Alonso playing after being out so long as a 2nd holding midfielder, Pennant getting his first football for nearly 3 months by starting the game, a game we really had to win, all against a side in the bottom 3 that were going to sit back and defend for 90 minutes? I thought these were the games he bought Babel and Yossi for? I'm no manager - cue gags - but I really don't understand what he's trying to do apart from prove how F'ing clever he is! No offence against Alonso but was tonight the right time to play him???

Anyone blaming Gerrard for this debacle wants their head feeling. Rafa has been here 4 years now and a HK unable to run is still his 1st choice LM; he's bought Crouch, Kuyt, Bellamy as strikers and sold the only one with any pace and attitude, and will now have to sell the rest because they are not good enough. He buys too many players who lack mobility and pace - totally fundamental for a PL player - too many stop gaps who move on within a year or two because he is obsessed with the size of his squad. Starting Pennant and Alonso has done it for me.

So let me get this right............ Masch isn't worth £17M and we shouldn't sign him because the other 'top' teams have better fullbacks than us and their CB's score more goals than Carra and Agger? You couldn't make it up.

F'ing hate Bentley, he's a good player though, as are Keane/Defoe and Wayne Bridge for LB.

Is the game not West Ham away????

Luckily I had HK/Yossi/Babel as back up then!

Too right they are and I mostly blame Rafa's stubborness for that. Personally I would have tried Babel a few times up front by now, and I would have played Crouch against City if he hadn't worked out yet. Couldn't see how Kuyt was gonna have any impact against Dunne and Richards, and if he wasn't picking Crouch for whatever reason would have preferred HK or Yossi as 2nd striker/link player. Alonso and Masch in the middle, SG one side and whoever wasn't up front or Babel on the other. I think Babel needs matches not 10 - 15 minutes here and there, he scores goals and adds much needed blinding pace to our side.

Torres is World Class and had a bad day, Kuyt is gash and always plays like that?

But he wasn't good was he, he was good by his standards! I've read it in this thread, 'good performance', 'good contribution' what did he do exactly? What did he create, how hard a time did he give Richards and Dunne, how many shots on target, beat a man, play Torres in??????? There are perfectly sane, reasonable people on here trying to excuse an average performance from an average player. I stand by every word I said, yesterday he was offside all the time, relieving pressure on the City defence by giving away silly freekicks by fouling when trying to win a ball that had bounced off him yet again, his positional sense was s**** for a striker, and I don't recall one pass, header or cross he made that was actually dangerous. Look beyond the 'Momo-like' workrate and what does he do exactly that merits anyone saying that he had a good game?

Whatever, you don't seem to have a point beyond name calling do you? I think he's average at best, I also think he'll never be a success at Liverpool and will be gone in the next 12 months - but I hope its sooner. Happy New Year.

RE: Your reply, you're wrong, even simpler. RE: Kuyt, I don't think so!

Utter tripe, he's seriously lacking in all the major areas for a striker which he tries to disguise with massive workrate! Watched the game on TV, offside repeatedly, ball bouncing off him all over the place, our periods of possession constantly breaking down when the ball reaches him, slow and clumsy. He gets slagged off because he's obviously not good enough and aint gonna be! Is defending him on here the new 'done thing' ?

Yes mate he did, poor touch, no awareness, no pace, caught offside all the F'in time and gives freekicks away when he tries to retrieve yet another ball thats bounced off him! He might have played well yesterday FOR HIM, but personally I don't buy into the whole "yeah he's gash but look how far he runs" ethos and think he's basically a 5/6 out of 10 player at best. Crouch is far better than Dirk, but looks like he's off, Personally I'd rather play Babel or Kewell up there but whatever happens Rafa needs to stop buying strikers with no pace!

To be fair he benefited from the understandable desire from us to see something special in our new players, but there have been a fair few of us who have been totally unconvinced all along. I fail to see how you can say that "Class is permanent" about a player who seriously lacks the basic attributes to play as a striker. His control and 1st touch is appalling, poor finisher, total lack of pace. Kaizer should produce figures about what % of our attacking moves break down when the ball reaches him, it would be astonishing. Signing Torres has been a disaster for Kuyt because he makes him look exactly what he is, and as often said on here if you look beyond his workrate he is at best average and nowhere near good enough for us to move forward. As for "some great games this season" - I'd be interested in any that he's had that have been better than OK. He's out of his depth and he's playing like he knows it!

If they were available in the January window Fabregas, Adebayor and Van Persie would all go for upwards of £20M, possibly Toure as well. For us, Torres, Gerrard, Alonso possibly, Reina maybe. Not a lot in it to be honest.

He's a good player either up front or on the wing, would cost a fortune though!

At his best he was as good as if not better thana anyone we've ever had in his position - currently he's so much better than HK and the rest it's embarassing to suggest otherwise. Also, best partner for Torres = Rooney.

Well going on yesterday's game nor can Carra or Arbeloa - Riise passed the ball better then both of them. Arbeloa had possibly his worst game for us, and Carra hoofed almost every time he had the ball.