mooks

From Wikipedia: Good for them? Well, let's see what happens. If we do get in a war of attrition with Suarez over the next few months it will cause serious damage to the club.

That may be precisely how the other shareholders feel about Henry right now.

I just don't get it - name me a top manager who has not made purchases that have not worked out. The profit we made from Alonso and Torres (after years of magnificent service) far outweighs any loss on Keane and Aquilani. Does every club do "awful business" from your perspective?

Seems like Luis is determined to dig in for the long haul. Do we want to get into a war of attrition where the player and the club both suffer huge damage? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Liverpool's Luis Suarez in Arsenal transfer saga vow of silence while on international duty 12 Aug 2013 22:30 Striker is in Japan for a friendly and will not discuss club matters with the media while he's there PLUS Downing latest http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/luis-suarez-transfer-liverpools-arsenal-2158125 Luis Suarez has put a gag on transfer talk while on Uruguay duty - but is desperate to force through a move. Unhappy Liverpool striker Suarez reported for Uruguay’s friendly with Japan on Wednesday and did not want to talk, and has also asked team-mates and even the Uruguayan FA to stay silent on his transfer saga. Arsenal target Suarez is desperate to force a move out of Anfield and the Gunners are likely to go back with a new bid this week. Suarez’s agent, Pere Guardiola, is also hoping to hold further talks with the Kop club on Friday to try to broker some agreement if nothing is concluded by then. Guardiola believes Liverpool may yet be forced into selling, as Suarez is refusing to meet Reds manager Brendan Rodgers’ demands of both private and public apologies for recent comments. The star's camp are now considering presenting legal documents to Liverpool which, they feel, prove they have a case. It is understood they are also sounding out the overseas market to see if any major clubs outside the Premier League are interested in the 26-year-old, as Liverpool have made it clear they do not want to sell him to Arsenal. Suarez has never hid his ambition of playing for Real Madrid but the Spanish club appear to be going all out for Gareth Bale. * WEST HAM are expected to confirm the £5million signing of Stewart Downing on Tuesday. The 29-year-old winger, who signed for Liverpool for a whopping £20m two years ago, has cut his losses after a troubled spell at Anfield. Downing has agreed personal terms with the Hammers.

Souness on Suarez This is the key part to me: "ESPN: Can Liverpool take a stand and put Suarez's career on halt by not playing him this season? GS: Chelsea and Manchester City might be able to turn around to a player and say, 'okay you disappear for a while and we will get on without you', but that can't happen at clubs that don't have very rich benefactors. Liverpool have budgets to work with, shareholders to keep happy and they cannot say 'let's forget about a £50m player to make a point here'. They can't afford to do it." Suarez reaching 'point of no return' August 12, 2013 http://espnfc.com/columns/story/_/id/1520246/graeme-souness-luis-suarez-need-fall-back-line-liverpool?cc=5901 Liverpool legend Graeme Souness rarely held back in his days as a passionate player and manager, so it will come as little surprise that he is less than sympathetic when expressing his views of the subject of Luis Suarez and his ongoing battle to secure a transfer away from Anfield. The straight-talking Souness has never been the type to pander to footballers who cause trouble on, or off the pitch, and with Suarez courting controversy in both spectrums in the last few months, this three-time European Cup winner is quick to criticise a striker whose desire to leave Liverpool has left him in a perilous position with just three weeks left in the current transfer window. Speaking at the launch of Sky Sports' biggest ever season of football in London, Souness pulled few punches as he gave his views on Suarez, Liverpool and the upcoming Premier League campaign in typically bullish fashion. ESPN: How would you handle Suarez if you were managing or playing alongside him at Liverpool right now? Graeme Souness: I have been in so many dressing rooms down the years and if I was at Liverpool, I'd go to Suarez and let him know that this behaviour has to stop. I'd let him know that I was going to have a fall out with him if he didn't come in line quickly. ESPN: Do you think he can play for Liverpool again after everything that has gone on in the last couple of months? GS: Suarez is rapidly putting himself into a situation where he is at a point of no return at Liverpool and this problem needs to be halted now before it's too late. He may well start this season as a Liverpool player and if that is to be the case, all concerned need to take a step back from what has happened in the last few weeks and think about what they say and do from this point forward. ESPN: Do you think the Liverpool fans still support Suarez after all his negative comments about the club this summer? GS: We are getting to a point now where the fans will just not accept this fella behaving as he is and coming back to play for the club. It cannot go on like it has done for the last couple of months and it's not just the supporters who will feel like that. ESPN: Will this ongoing story affect morale in the Liverpool dressing room? GS: I think it will. He is Liverpool's main goal getter and I just feel that the moment has come for senior players to go to him and say something like this: Okay Luis, you are not going to get what you want here and we all need to get back into this together. ESPN: What kind of example is Suarez setting with his antics in the last few months? GS: He is not setting a great example is he? It's not just for Liverpool we are talking about here, this is for football in general. This kind of behaviour has been going on for years and it will continue to go on, but it doesn't do much for the image of the game. ESPN: Was he wrong to come out so publicly and say he wanted to leave Liverpool? GS: I can only assume that his agents were telling him that Real Madrid were going to buy him when this whole story started. When he came out and said he wanted to leave English football and claimed the media were making his life difficult in this country, he must have been under the impression that Real were in for him. As it turns out, that hasn't happened and now he is in this tricky situation. ESPN: Is Suarez worth all the hassle he has caused Liverpool? GS: The answer to that question has to be yes he is. The reality is that Suarez is as good as anyone when he is on the pitch and that's why I believe he is worth the money and the baggage that comes with him. He is a top class goal scorer and there are not many of those about right now. ESPN: Can Liverpool take a stand and put Suarez's career on halt by not playing him this season? GS: Chelsea and Manchester City might be able to turn around to a player and say, 'okay you disappear for a while and we will get on without you', but that can't happen at clubs that don't have very rich benefactors. Liverpool have budgets to work with, shareholders to keep happy and they cannot say 'let's forget about a £50m player to make a point here'. They can't afford to do it. ESPN: So should Rodgers and Liverpool cut their losses and sell Suarez now? GS: Rodgers is in a very difficult situation. Sell him and you are without a guy whose goals kept your season afloat and then you will struggle to replace him as you have a load of cash and no one to buy. Premiums for possible replacements also go up when selling clubs know you have a load of money to spend. Where would Liverpool be without the goals he scored last season? Not in a good place. You cannot forget that. ESPN: Suarez seems to suggest Liverpool are not strong enough to finish in the top for this season. Would you agree with that assessment? GS: I would. I don't think Liverpool will be top four even if Suarez stays. Chelsea will be stronger this year, Manchester City will take some steps forward under their new manager and Man United are still a very strong squad. Those three are ahead of Liverpool and Arsenal are stronger as well. The trouble is, so long as Liverpool are not in the Champions League, they will fall further behind the top four. It is a problem they need to address quickly. ESPN: If Liverpool are not ready to challenge for the title again, where do you see it going in this new season? GS: You would have to say Manchester City and Chelsea look to be the strongest sides at this moment, but United won't be far away either. Having Jose Mourinho back is great for the Premier League because while I had my reservations about him at the start and his 'Special One' tag, you have to say he has lived up to that billing. He is a proven winner and he will get Chelsea going this season.

That was painful to watch from Cascarino. Now I feel rather thankful that DIC didn't purchase Liverpool - although we should have gone straight to FSG rather than the H&G route.

Fascinating ...

Agger won't rule out Barca move as Catalan giants want to agree Liverpool fee By Dominic King PUBLISHED: 21:47 GMT, 11 August 2013 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2389472/Daniel-Agger-wont-rule-Liverpool-Barcelona.html?ico=sport^headlines Daniel Agger's representatives have indicated he would be open to a move to Barcelona if Liverpool can agree a fee for the defender's release. Despite Liverpool denying they had received an offer for Agger, it is understood Barcelona have made a £15million bid to secure the Denmark international, who is Liverpool's vice captain. Brendan Rodgers is adamant Liverpool will retain Agger but that may change today as Barcelona wait to see if David Luiz will push to leave Chelsea. Agger is a significantly cheaper option than Luiz and a new bid will give Rodgers a problem. Agger signed a new contract last season but his agent, Per Steffensen said: 'We are aware that Barcelona have made an offer for Daniel that Liverpool have rejected. 'Daniel has a contract with Liverpool for the next three years and it would be up to the clubs to agree a fee for his transfer in order for that to change.' Liverpool are monitoring developments with Paris St Germain's Mamadou Sakho and have made a £5million offer for Granada left-back Guilherme Siquiera.

Not sure what you mean. We didn't "stand by" El-Hadji Diouf for example. We made it clear we wanted him out of the club.

Yeah, I missed that part - just noticed the "winner of England's Top Model of the World beauty pageant".

Doesn't sound like his accuser needs money or celebrity. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Liverpool's Raheem Sterling charged with assault of 'girlfriend' http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/10233288/Liverpools-Raheem-Sterling-charged-with-assault-of-girlfriend.html Liverpool striker Raheem Sterling has appeared in court to deny assaulting a woman, reported to be his girlfriend. The England international is said to have attacked 19-year-old model Shana Ann Rose Halliday. The 18-year-old winger entered a not guilty plea at Liverpool Magistrates' Court on Friday. Sterling spent the preivous night in a police cell after being arrested at 10.30pm following an incident in Page Moss, Huyton, Liverpool. The Jamaican-born player was granted conditional bail and will stand trial for common assault at the same court on September 20. Halliday, from Liverpool, was crowned the winner of England's Top Model of the World beauty pageant earlier this year. She went on to contest the pageant's world final in Egypt and reportedly works as a sales assistant for the Hollister clothing chain. The news comes just a day after England manager Roy Hodgson insisted he will decide for himself whether Sterling has the right attitude to become an England player.

Even stronger words from Carra - talks about Torres too ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Luis Suarez reasons for Arsenal switch is "laughable" claims former Liverpool defender Jamie Carragher Anfield legend has condemned his former team-mate and says that the Uruguayan should be showing more loyalty to the club that stood by him for years http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/transfer-news-luis-suarez-reasons-for-arsenal-switch-is-laughable-claims-former-liverpool-defender-jamie-carragher-8755507.html Jamie Carragher has labelled his former team-mate Luis Suarez as “laughable” after his complaint over Liverpool’s reluctance to let him move to Premier League rivals Arsenal. The central defender-turned TV pundit retired this summer after a 17-year career with the Reds, and he has now had his say on the Suarez saga. The Uruguayan claims that the club agreed to let him leave this year should they fail to reach the Champions League, but the club insist that is not true and there is no such clause to back that up – supported by the Professional Footballers’ Association chairman Gordon Taylor. And Carragher has backed his former club in suggesting that Suarez should be showing greater loyalty to the club, although he did admit that the striker is “too good” for both Liverpool and Arsenal, and would be better suited to a Real Madrid, Barcelona or Bayern Munich. Writing in his Daily Mail column, Carragher said: "It didn't surprise me that Brendan Rodgers has made him train on his own. I never thought Luis would down tools in the way Fernando Torres did when he wanted to leave Liverpool - his attitude over the final 18 months became progressively worse - but now Suarez has given me reason to think again. "To see it come to this is very dispiriting. A lot of good people have stood by Luis since he joined the club. Rodgers and Kenny Dalglish could not have done more for him. In the darkest times, we wore T-shirts to show we were standing alongside him, even if it was ill-advised. "So it is laughable to hear he is unhappy with Liverpool for not letting him join Arsenal." Suarez was banned in 2011 by the Football Association for racially abusing Manchester United left-back Patrice Evra, and he was handed a further 10-game ban at the end of last season for biting Chelsea defender Branislav Ivanovic, for which he still has six games to serve. Liverpool stood by the 26-year-old though, but Carragher has admitted that he has seen a change in his attitude towards life at Anfield. "I took part in a training session at Melwood before Steven Gerrard's testimonial last Saturday and I was alarmed by the Luis Suarez with whom I was sharing a pitch,” revealed Carragher, who made 737 appearances for the Merseyside club. "From his first day at Liverpool, I had been used to seeing a warrior who loved his football and charged around with great enthusiasm. "On this occasion, however, his attitude was completely different. He didn't want the ball and had no interest in getting involved. He stood on the periphery, with shoulders slumped." This contradicts what Rodgers said at the end of last month, when he claimed that Suarez was happy at Liverpool and is “training well”. Since then though, Suarez broke his silence with his outburst earlier this week, leading Rodgers to drop him to the reserves until he can show that he has respect for both the club and his team-mates. Another former Liverpool stalwart to condemn Suarez was the recently retired Michael Owen, but he also understands his desire to leave for a bigger club and further his career – although he says Arsenal is not that club. Speaking to the Daily Telegraph, Owen said: "People have this stereotypical view of a footballer that he's just greedy, no loyalty, but you can bet your bottom dollar that if Suarez wasn't as good was he was then Liverpool wouldn't have stood by him [during his misdemeanours]. Of course, you have to bear in mind the things people have done for you along the way, and have some gratitude, but you have one shot. "Luis has not come through the ranks. He doesn't have a huge affinity with Liverpool but the fans have a huge affinity with him and expect that to be reciprocated. But he wants to go and be at the best club he can. "This is where I can't quite understand it. If it's Arsenal the only option for him, I can't really understand why he would want to leave given the way the Liverpool fans feel about him and the team is virtually built about him. If Real Madrid came in for him, I could certainly understand that."

Bale is a couple of years younger. The better comparison is Cavani who is the same age and has a better goalscoring record than Suarez (better than anyone, really, bar Messi and Ronaldo) over the past three years. He went for just over £50m to PSG who have been throwing the euros around like candy. Oh, and Cavani doesn't come with all the baggage and suspensions that accompany LS. £50m is about the best we could get for Suarez in this market.

If Liverpool's 'Luis Suarez transfer will not happen' vow ISN'T bluster, Arsenal face big trouble 9 Aug 2013 07:00 First it was going to be Higuain, then Rooney, now they could again have an empty net and little time to recast the rod, writes Martin Lipton http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpools-luis-suarez-transfer-not-2142569 The reaction at the ­Emirates was to smile and ignore the latest words from Merseyside. John W Henry’s utter dismissal of the very idea that Luis Suarez will be allowed to go to Arsenal did not get any official reaction. The north Londoners believe it is all bluster and bombast, the last fusillades from an army in headlong retreat. Even Arsene Wenger, quizzed by one fan if he was going to sign the Uruguayan during Arsenal’s Members’ Day, put his thumb up. For Arsenal, as with Chelsea over Wayne Rooney, the belief is it is a matter of time before Suarez poses in a red shirt with white sleeves. But Henry did not amass a fortune by being an idiot, soft or a patsy. He turned himself into a billionaire by being a hard-nosed businessman, who knew when to trade, and when to stick. And if Henry is as good as his latest words, sticks to his vows, then things might be about to get a whole lot messier in N5. From cocky assurance the fish was ready to be reeled in, to another empty net - and with no time to cast the rod again. This, the long-suffering Gooners were promised, would be the summer it all changed, when the sacrifices of recent years would be placed in greater context. Since Patrick Vieira struck the decisive shoot-out penalty that clinched the FA Cup in 2005, Arsenal supporters have watched a series of heroes depart for ­temptations elsewhere. Vieira himself, followed by Thierry Henry. Then, as they always knew would happen, Cesc Fabregas. Promises of big-money replacements have come and gone with remarkable rapidity, the doubts over Wenger starting to surface by those who once proudly trumpeted “Arsene knows”. But last August, as those Gooners were powerless to prevent Robin van Persie leaving not for a foreign field but for Old Trafford, to become, as Sir Alex Ferguson accepted, the biggest single factor in Manchester United’s title glory, was the tipping point. Wenger appeared to recognise it. Chief executive Ivan Gazidis certainly did, although his post-season promise of “a big summer” of spending and a £70million transfer pot, was a break with tradition at the most traditional of clubs. This time, the Emirates faithful were told, the money was not only available but would be spent. Gazidis said: “We also have new revenue streams coming on board and all of these things mean we can do some things which would excite you.” It sounded a bit like a solicitor experiencing a mid-life crisis, splurging on a Ferrari when it had always been family saloons. First, it was going to be Gonzalo Higuain. Unwanted by Real Madrid, Wenger identified the Argentine as the man he saw as his new spearhead. Everything seemed in place. Except actually doing the deal, as Arsenal saw Higuain run into the arms of Rafa Benitez at Napoli instead. Then it was Wayne Rooney. Arsenal could afford him, the club suggested. He fitted Wenger’s profile. Except while Rooney wants to come to London, it is Chelsea blue he covets. And now it's Suarez. Alerted about the alleged clause in the Uruguayan’s contract – who knows how that could have happened? – they offered £40,000,001 to trigger it. Or so they thought. The plan was simple. Exploit the vulnerability. Force Liverpool to sell. Take their man for a knock-down fee – even if Wenger knew the hardest part was going to be ensuring Suarez learned to knuckle under and toe the line. Fine, if it works, if you get your man. Less so if you overbid and have nothing in your hand. Especially with the fans demanding tangible proof the promises are real, and not just hot air. Arsenal, surely, did not ­anticipate the extent of Liverpool’s fury, articulated in emotive words by Brendan Rodgers, confirmed by Henry’s Illinois tones. Suddenly, the stakes are being raised. Should the season begin, let alone the transfer window slam shut, with 20-year-old free transfer Yaya Sanogo being Arsenal’s only summer capture, the underlying frustrations and tensions will surely be one bad result away from boiling over. That bitter rivals Spurs are aiming to get four times as much for Gareth Bale as Arsenal received for Van Persie will also raise ­questions over the boardroom direction of the club. Of course, if Wenger’s confidence is justified, if Suarez is destined for the Emirates, the doubters will hold their tongues. If not, the firestorm will break out. There will be no holding it back. And you wonder what the upshot could be.

I like the terminology - 'asset value' rather than 'market value'. Suarez' market value is whatever any other club is willing to pay for him, which currently is £40million (give or take a pound). However, his asset value is higher as losing a fit and firing Suarez would make it extremely difficult for the club to get back into the top four this season. That said, his behaviour this summer has reduced both his 'asset value' and his 'market value'.

Well, I take myself very seriously indeed so that makes up for it

Exactly what I was thinking. Except it's a completely different situation - we still have nearly a month of the transfer window left. And if we had sold Suarez earlier in the window who exactly does he think we would have got in as a replacement who is no longer available? Falcao? Cavani? Or does he think with a bit more time we could have convinced Ronaldo or Bale to join our club? The fact is no top-class player is going to join a club that is not in the Champions League or even the EL. What we are looking at (at any point in the transfer window) are players from second-tier leagues such as Portugal or Holland, middling players in the top leagues, or unproven youth with potential. And apart from his Carroll flashbacks there is no reason why we can't bring in replacements of this calibre with most of August ahead of us (and when LS is suspended until October in any event).

Why is there no time to sign a suitable replacement? Almost a month left?

A tad defensive, no? Hmmm

I guess there are lies and there are "white lies". I think almost every football manager engages in the latter but on an issue as serious as this I would hope and expect he's telling the truth.

Sorry, perhaps my question wasn't clear. As I understood it, the FA verdict rested largely on credibility - essentially, the panel found Evra's story of LS referring to him by his race several times more believable than Suarez' story that he had only called Evra "negrito" once. I was wondering whether anyone who assumed Suarez was telling the truth earlier had changed their minds given that our own manager is now calling into question Suarez' credibility. But you are correct in that I do believe that many on here supported Suarez only or primarily because he is a Liverpool player. In fact, I think Leo has acknowledged that recently. But I'll say no more on the subject.

Listen, Swan Red, if I had waded into the Suarez debate on here during the Evra affair and expressed my true views the backlash would have been relentless. It would have consumed way too much of my time and emotional resources. Racism is something personal to me and if I'd started it would never have stopped. So I made the decision right off the bat to keep my opinions to myself. I thought one or two of you might have changed your mind but if you haven't then so be it. I believe he's a disgrace to the shirt and perhaps in a few years some of you who have supported him will have come to that realization. Or I may change my mind and see him as a misunderstood soul who was the victim of relentless anti-Liverpool propaganda.

One is a Liverpool legend the other is a diving, moaning, vicious little scumbag. Go figure.

Here's hoping

True - in this case I happen to believe him. There would have been several people involved in the negotiations as well so he would look kind of foolish if any of those individuals contradicted him. Negrito-gate. Whatever. F*** knows