mooks

I was obviously in the distinct minority when it came to refusing to support Suarez over Evragate. Far from wanting to pour scorn on those who viewed it differently than me I completely avoided discussing it on the Internet - both before and after the verdict came out (which would have been the perfect time to deride the majority). I am just wondering if anyone's views have changed. That is all. Thanks for the back up Swan Red. I know I can always count on you!

Well I'm clearly prone to the odd bout of sarcasm that was really just a straightforward question. We have the manager of Liverpool Football Club calling Suarez a liar - who do you believe? And if it's Brendan wouldn't that cast in doubt Suarez' honesty and credibility in other circumstances?

D'oh! I get it now!

I never supported Suarez at the time so I guess the answer is no it hasn't changed my assessment. I actually quite liked Brendan's response - certainly wouldn't describe it as sh*t

"There were no promises made - categorically none - and no promises broken," insisted Rodgers. "The club and his representatives had several conversations and he knew exactly where he was at. "There has been total disrespect of the club - a club that has given him everything. "Obviously the remarks I've read are bitterly disappointing - but my job is bigger than that." Does anyone care to reconsider the validity of the FA's assessment of Luis' credibility in the Evra affair?

Sorry, Leo, DH and JonShar. Genuine oversight on my part.

Leo and DH - there's two for starters.

Unity, dignity, ambition and fighting commitment

Everton have finished above us the last two seasons. It would be utopia if we matched their achievements (to quote a beloved ex-manager).

We could be paying all of Pepe's wages and a number of posters on here would be lauding it as a masterstroke.

We could but chances are we won't. This article looks at what generally happens to clubs when they sell their best player: Bale-out will hit Tottenham hard TOTTENHAM beware. Sell Gareth Bale for a record fee and research shows you can forget Champions League football next season. http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/419961/Bale-out-will-hit-Tottenham-hard

There is a written agreement in his contract - the question is what does it mean? The oral discussions would be pertinent. Also, if I were Suarez' agent I would be asking why put the clause in there if it doesn't mean anything at the end of the day?

The Heinze case illustrates the importance of verbal discussions when interpreting a written document. However, it also could be a positive precedent as the panel found it constituted an 'agreement to agree', and did not create an obligation or binding agreement for the club to transfer the player to any particular club. http://www.nairaland.com/73871/heinze-loses-arbitration-appeal-cant Gabriel Heinze has lost his bid to force Manchester United to sell him to Liverpool. The Argentina defender had gone to a Premier League panel claiming United had written a letter allowing him to leave if another club offered a fee of £6.8million. The panel today dismissed Heinze's case and backed United, who maintained they made it clear to the 29-year-old both orally and in writing that he would not be permitted to join one of their title rivals. It now appears that if Heinze is intent on leaving the club he will have to move abroad. The Premier League said in a statement: "The hearing concluded that nature and intention of the disputed 13 June 2007 letter, especially when taken in context of verbal discussions and Manchester United FC's transfer policy, was unambiguous in that it envisages only an international transfer. "Furthermore the hearing finds the letter constitutes an 'agreement to agree', and did not create an obligation or binding agreement for the club to transfer the player to any particular club. "In other words the letter is evidence of an intention to negotiate, both between the parties and with potential buying clubs, and not evidence of any intention to create legal relations." Heinze does have the right to appeal to the Premier League appeals committee, which is made up of an independent, legally-qualified chairman, a member of the Premier League panel and a PFA appointee. The decision has delighted United, who were represented by both manager Sir Alex Ferguson and chief executive David Gill at the hearing in London.

If there was an oral agreement it would not have been just between Suarez and BR - there would have been lawyers, agents and other club officials involved. I, for one, believe this is going to arbitration. And I'm not as c**k-sure confident as most on here appear to be.

They did come up with the Vieira song tbf

If we've bid £11.5m I doubt Atletico will be overly impressed

My point is that rather than worshipping at the House of Suarez after his cannibal impersonation Ajax decided to sell him. They didn't wait for him to hand in a transfer request. They made the decision as it was the right one for the dignity and well-being of the club. Liverpool, on the other hand, have been only too willing to explain away little Luis' transgressions as he is seen as an irreplaceable part of the team. In my opinion, Suarez is a bigger c**t than Diouf was. And that's saying a lot. And I was of that opinion long before this summer and long before he joined us.

"After team-mate Rasmus Lindgren received a red card in the closing stages of the scoreless Eredivisie draw between both Dutch giants, a scuffle took place involving a number of players. Bakkal stamped on Suarez's foot during the brawl, provoking the 26-year-old to react by biting the surprised midfielder. Referee Bjorn Kuipers failed to spot the incident, yet the attacker would not get away with his crime. Understandably, Suarez's bizarre action led to an intense debate in the media about what punishment should be taken and Ajax opted not to wait for the Dutch football assocation's (KNVB) verdict. The Godenzonen did play their star striker in the Champions League match against Real Madrid three days after the incident, but then handed him a two-match ban, as well as a hefty fine that would be donated to charity. The club's reaction did little to satisfy the Dutch press, though, with even Ajax-minded paper De Telegraaf calling for a more severe punishment, labelling Suarez: 'The cannibal of Ajax'. The KNVB weren't too impressed with Ajax's punishment either and took a firm stance by handing the controversial forward a seven-match ban. The most important consequence of Suarez's bite was not his lengthy suspension, but that his reputation was tarnished. Life was impossible for him in the Netherlands. A winter transfer therefore away from the club seemed a realistic option. Indeed, the 0-0 draw against PSV would prove to be his last Eredivisie game for the Amsterdam giants. Only days after serving the last match of his seven-game ban, Liverpool made an offer for Suarez and Ajax were happy to cash in on the attacker after the Reds eventually proved willing to match their asking price. Some 27 months after his move to Anfield, a similar scenario could be on the cards this summer." This was written in April - right after the Chelsea game. http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2013/04/22/3922291/ajax-appetite-when-suarez-took-his-first-bite If Ajax can sell this dolt and prosper why can't we? What are we so afraid of? What happened to the belief that the club is bigger than any individual - let alone an individual a million miles away from epitomizing the values we claim as our own?

Let's not forget why Ajax were so desperate to get rid of Suarez ...

It appears there is a real chance Rooney will go to Chelsea for under £30 million. If so, would that put some perspective on the price we're demanding for Suarez? It could be argued that PSG and Madrid are paying over the odds for Cavani and Bale due to marketing potential and that those are not the best comparisons.

Do your schools not teach grammar anymore (such as the use of a comma)? Seriously.

As I've said at least a couple of times since it became clear Reina was being forced out, by November/December I thought it would be best to replace him. His form improved dramatically after that. And, by the way, I would not really have had a problem with Rodgers replacing Pepe with Mignolet if we had received a decent fee for Pepe. That would have been one of those "maybe this will work out, maybe it won't" scenarios.

So with the consensus being that BR has done the right thing by loaning Reina for no fee and bringing in a replacement for £9 million I looked through this thread to see what people were saying about Pepe towards the end of last season ...

Dave Prentice: Why Pepe Reina had to go http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/sport-opinion/dave-prentice-liverpool-fc-keeper-5430897 2 Aug 2013 11:34 Prenno on the end of a much-loved Rein – and why love isn't blind in football Pepe Reina s a top bloke. One of the boys. A solid, salt of the earth type of fella – and loved by Liverpool FC fans as a result. But love from football fans is rarely unconditional, which means Pepe can’t have it all ways. Which is why the open letter penned by the departed Liverpool goalkeeper this week received such a mixed reaction from the Reds fan base. While a thousand word farewell letter was a lovely parting gesture, it also outlined part of the reason why the Reds were prepared to let him go. Only part of the reason, that is. After 628 words of heartfelt thanks, praise and gratitude for Liverpool Football Club and its fans, Reina added: “A lot has been made about me informing the club that if an offer came in from Barcelona that I would have liked them to consider it. “But I had also spoken to the club about the possibility of extending my contract if the offer was not made. “I told the manager that I wanted to play for Liverpool and that Barcelona would only become an option for me if the opportunity arrived, like the rumours said it would, as it would be a chance for me to go back home. “When it didn’t come I was happy to fight for my place so I was surprised that Liverpool decided it was in the club’s interests to send me to Napoli instead.” In summary, Reina was happy to stay and play for his beloved Reds – and carry on collecting £110,000 a week don’t forget – unless the one club who he loved just that little bit more came in for him. Which is all fair enough. But so, too, was Brendan Rodgers’ reaction. As soon as the Reds boss was informed “if an offer comes in from Barcelona” the alarm bells must have rung. Footballers don’t anticipate approaches from clubs. Their agents inform them when other clubs are interested and Reina must have been aware of interest from Barca to have gone to the lengths of telling his manager. If Rodgers had simply accepted Reina’s request he would have been in danger of compromising the club’s long term stability. So rather than run the risk of having to scramble around at the last minute for a replacement, he targeted a new goalkeeper straight away. Reina’s emotional dilemma, however, was only part of the reason for Liverpool letting go. Perhaps of more significance is that Pepe Reina is no longer the goalkeeper he was. There’s a graph doing the rounds in cyberspace charting Pepe Reina’s Premier League save percentage since he arrived at the club in 2005 up until the end of 2011/12. Apart from one spike in the season Kenny Dalglish arrived at the club, it’s a steadily descending red line. The statistics contained on the always fascinating EPL Index website also show a declining force. From 83 saves in 2008/09 and 103 in 2009/10, Reina made 98, 79 and just 73 in the seasons that followed. From five missed crosses in 2008/09 and four the following season, he failed to collect seven, four and 10 in the three seasons that followed. And from 20 clean sheets in 2008/09 and 17 in 2010, he kept 14, 12 and 14 in the three seasons that followed. Of course a goalkeeper isn’t solely responsible for a team’s defensive statistics, but a straight head to head comparison with Simon Mignolet’s Sunderland stats last season put the new Reds keeper ahead in almost every category except distribution. But perhaps the most telling statistic should be evidence of our own eyes. All goalkeepers make mistakes. Liverpool legend Bruce Grobbelaar made more than most. High profile, glaring, swinging his boot at a ball and missing it kind of mistakes (Sheffield Wednesday), racing out of his area like Wayne Sleep hailing a taxi type of blunders (CSKA Sofia) or letting a tame 20-yarder roll under his body in a derby match mishap (he was carrying an injury when Kevin Ratcliffe let fly with that one, mind). But he remained Reds keeper for 13 years and 628 games because he made blinding, goal -preventing, point-preserving and ultimately trophy-winning saves. Can you recall that many blinding, point-saving Pepe Reina saves from the last three seasons? No, me neither. While the errors – Arsenal at home, Norwich away, Spurs away and Manchester City away – pop instantly to mind. According to the EPL Index Reina has made progressively more defensive errors year-on-year, while Mignolet has made fewer. Indeed, the Belgian has made fewer in total in the last two years than the Spaniard did in 2012/13 alone. So when he told his manager he wanted any opportunity to talk to Barcelona, he might have handed his boss an opportunity too. Pepe Reina is a good bloke who has been loved by the Reds fans. But that love isn’t blind. PS. For farewell letters without any agenda, look up Luis Garcia’s. Which is why the little Spaniard’s name was chanted before the pre-season friendly at Preston this summer six years after he left Anfield.

Reina was back to form in the second half of last season. He ended up with 14 clean sheets in 31 appearances. Joe Hart won the Golden Gloves award with 18 clean sheets in 38 appearances. Given the terrible start Reina had it is hugely impressive that he ended up with virtually the same ratio as the Golden Gloves winner. Why oh why feed a troll?