RedNik

I actually rate him as a CB - damn strong in the air ... but thats another debate. Point is away from home, first game, I'm not sure Babel will get the nod.

Its hillarious how little information we've had to feed off this summer. Its at the point where we'll actually debate stuff from tribull and football rumours.

No reason why he cant play for us at that age. Pace has never been his strong point, so aging wont hurt him. Its got the Maldini situation all over it. Just hope he can lead us to that kind of glory in the next 5-10 years.

Dont see how he can call in lawyers to force his club to sell him. If they're holding out for a price, and there is no release clause, theres squat that he can do. Granted we've talked far too much about lawyers this summer.

Yup that could be the logic behind it. Presumably though he has sealed the deal and is just waiting for the CL qualification -- if we indeed are in for someone. Would say a little bit about the owners though - in that rafa doesn't have endless backing, and some of the transfers do indeed need to be financed. Personally I think its just Heinze, and seeing as we've waited as long as we have for the deal, we're either pretty confident of sealing it or were taking advantage of what we saw as a deal, similar to bellers last year (although 7 mill for Heinze doesnt seem like opportunism).

Mellberg is a good, strong (even dirty) defender, I wouldn't want to put Babbel up against him in his first prem outing.

When we were known to be in for pennant and bellamy, people (not saying you did) turned their public records into an advantage - saying we need that sort of personality bla bla. Its all a bit of tinted glasses for me. FWIW, he is a quality player and just what we need in midfield - someone who will run aggressively with the ball.

Agree with most of your points ... maybe not the crystal ball stuff at the end but whatever... Fact is we did spend big this summer - but just happened to recoup a lot of it. I think Rafa has brought in whoever he wanted to, or will bring in by the months end, whoever he wants for the squad. We have not needed to sell in order to buy, and we have not sold any player who would have done anything for us, bar Garcia, who by reports wanted a larger team role.

Been meaning to point this out. I didn't get to see Kuyt play at Feyenoord, but his goalscoring record - im sure Kaizer can verify my STATS - some 70 goals in 100 starts or something? - is quality. I dont imagine he could have scored this many, no matter how schite the opposition, occupying the positions that he has been doing for us. That being said, it seems strange that Rafa would play him up top, alone, and then instruct him to track back a lot (for example champions league final).

I thought the TV deals were struck with UEFA - and so they would have a say in this? - no info regarding that belief, mind.

We get nothing coming in from behind the line of defense then. Finnan will put in a decent ball, but almost always from deep/ a cut back or turn around. Gerrard will cross from deep, mostly on the counter. We'll basially be relying on Harry to put in quality from behind the defensive line - and he has looked pretty reluctant to run at defenders thus far. Maybe he's being cautious in pre season, and Rafa has told him to just ensure he gets fully fit for the new season before going 100 %, or maybe he's lost a bit of pace. Either way, we'll still have those problems away from home.

Seeing yesterdays game reminded me of how complete a midfielder Gerrard is. I've missed seeing him chase back and tackle the s*** out of the opposition. Needless to say he is better in the middle, and we make use of 2 qualities of his - tackling and mid to long range passing, which we dont nearly see enough when he plays right mid or as a second striker. Of course this does make it harder for him to make those marauding runs, but I suppose he still managed to do that yesterday too. Im not convinced that he will play mainly in the center though. I still think that playing xabi masher and gerrard (on the right) is stronger than say xabi, gerrard and pennant/yossi.

Question was which would be funnier.

Sissoko - been there, done that. Time to get at Fergie!

The sentiment towards Heinze on this forum has clearly been split. I'd even say that most are skeptical at best toward his signing, and the only reason we're looking at the positive side is that Rafa is more clued in than us, and clearly wants him.

Mistake comparing our first 11 to chelseas. They may be marginally more solid there, but if you look at the squad, the options they have to change a game were far better than ours in the last few years.

Te gap argument also assumes entirely that the other teams will maintain their level from the previous season - not necessarily a given at all.

No Van der Vaart then? What about Kompany?

Surely he'll move elsewhere, if the move is blocked?

Against the top 4, those big games, its not as much about quality as it is system. If you play the right system, and have a top quality finisher/striker, you can win those games. All you have to do is look at our record against the top teams under Houllier. We often had the better of them, especially Manu. Under Rafa, we've almost always played better than chelsea, but haven't got the results (incidentally this has been the case with us against a lot of teams, and Torres may be the signing who can change that). For whatever reason, Rafa hasn't gotten the better of Wenger and Ferguson at all though. Just to stress my point about systems - Rafa winning with Valencia was all about their system dominating other teams. He didnt have the collection of best players.

Kuyt can play on the right side of that. Remember he works his socks off and has played on the wings for holland. Id expect Kuyt to play in many away games, because of his work rate tbh and imo 433 or 451, whichever way you look at it, gets the best out of our squad.

A lot of it is about managing expectations. Its true that quantam leaps are very hard to make at the top of the premiership but considering that last year was a setback, we aren't that far away. That being said, our signings haven't hugely strengthened our first 11, rather our squad options. Personally I think we needed to strengthen the first 11 a bit more, with perhaps a better left back, more reliable winger(s) and a striker. Of the 3, we've got the striker. Expectations however are going to be huge and he's undoubtedly going to take some time. Unless he really brings out the best in his strike partner, whom I still believe will largely be Dirk, we're still going to be lacking a bit up front. Remember that 3 out of our 5 strikers at the club haven't kicked a ball in the premiership, and 1 of them has only been here a year. Its going to take time. As for the other areas, we still may, get a new left back, although Riise certainly isnt a bad option - merely the weakest link. Still a great squad option, especially in later stage cup games because of his stamina. So that brings us to the wingers. Rafa has clearly stated that he likes the progress Jermaine has made and if he can keep up that level of consistency we'll be sorted on the right. What Pennant needs to add to his game is his off the ball movement, which I think is virtually minimal. This will also result in him finding himself in more goalscoring situations, in which he needs to strike the ball with confidence. On the left flank, we've added Babel, who is sort of an unknown quantity at this level, in the near future atleast. I know we've been saying this for years but IF Kewell can stay fit we will get a great outlet, a link between midfield and the strikers, a guy who can hold on to posession, and goals from midfield. He may have lost some of his pace but he´'s still technically superior to most. He was a big reason for our succesful campaign (points wise) 2 years ago, and can be yet again. He's playing for a new contract, and to prove his detractors wrong so he does have a chip on his shoulder - but his attitude has never been the problem, injuries are to an extent out of his control. Basically we have improved our team from last year but that may not manifest itself hugely in points in the near future. We totalled 68 pts last year, probably could have been close to 75 had we been playing for anything in the last 4-5 games. We will probably improve on that number, but in order to win the premiership, we need a lot to go well. Strikers need to click and that may not be the easiest thing for an inexperienced strike force. Kewell needs to stay fit, something he hasnt done since christmas of the year he signed for us, our role players need to improve their consistency and level. For the last few years, ever since we finished 2nd under GED, theres been this optimistic expectation of us challenging for the title. I say optimistic because it was probably a step too far for us to make. Many of us saw this transfer window as being the one that pushed us there, I think it might, but is part of a longer term plan from Rafa. Maybe come this time next year we can actually EXPECT to win/challenge, this year, getting 80 pts would be a success for me.

Does he have that kind of strength and passing ability, with both feet - admittedly I know nothing but for second hand reports of Lucas.

I'm not sure if we really have the players fo that system yet. Masher is comparable to Albelda, perhaps a little less physically imposing. But Xabi isnt much like Baraja. Both pass the ball really well, Xabi with better long range distribution (marginally). The difference is Baraja was always ready and willing to get forward, to the edge of the penalty box and score goals. I think he was their top scorer for a season or 2. Also we don't have an Aimar, we have Gerrard.

We need to stop comparing our squad and our acquisitions to chelsea manu etc. Manu has strengthened a lot, with or without Tevez. Irrespective, I highly doubt they will get a higher point total than they did last season in the prem. We need to focus on getting our squad up to a level where we can get 80 plus points, even if we get hit with injuries. Im not overly scared by manu"s buys, we play them only twice in the premiership and they wont be better (over the course of a season) than they were last year.