Poolfrog

Agree 100% - unbelievably cringeworthy

I've never called him God. He was an excellent player in his first four or five seasons, went rapidly downhill following a bad injury, we got rid at the right time and should never have brought him back as he is, sadly, well past it as his two completely and utterly abysmal apperances against Sheffield United and Everton clearly showed. He's as slow as continental drift these days

I don't see anything contentious in what I said. It's true after all is it not? That Roger Hunt bloke wasn't too shabby - other oldies will no doubt confirm. He's still our top league scorer I believe

Fowler's best days are many years behind him and he just can't cut it at the highest level anymore Carling Cup or FA Cup against lower division teams is all he can hope for

So you think that real fans can just switch off from being fans? Please explain; I'm intrigued by this novel idea I think you mean "They are ridiculous - full stop" We don't use the term "period" for a full stop as they do in the USA

In the real world, how many people do you know that wake up one morning and say "I don't support my team anymore"? I didn't decide to support Liverpool all of a sudden - it just happened over time when I was very young. So I'm basically stuck with them and it would be literally impossible to switch the feeling off, particularly over something as silly as how I felt "the club" (ie some transient officials who hang around for a few years) was treating me. I've never heard anything so daft in my life. I have also been a fan for almost 50 years - from when we were in the old second division - so I think I'm well qualified to judge a fan's commitment and attitudes.

I'm sorry I don't buy that. You don't support a club because how it's officials treat you or how you consider yourself to be considered by "the club". You just support them. A true supporter can't stop, no matter how annoyed/bored/pissed off they are. It's an innate thing like unconditional love for your child. If you can switch off and stop supporting them, you never supported them in the first place.

I'm sorry I don't buy that. You don't support a club because how it's officials treat you or how you consider yourself to be considered by "the club". You just support them. A true supporter can't stop, no matter how annoyed/bored/pissed off they are. It's an innate thing like unconditional love for your child. If you can switch off and stop supporting them, you never supported them in the first place.

Yes I kid you not. I remember reading years ago how he loved Londoners and hated northerners slagging them and London off, so he cultivated his Mockney persona and has well and truly gone native. I'm pretty sure he adopted a London team to support, to complete the picture.

It was very easy to get to the ground from the bus station, obviously allowing plenty of time for the heavy traffic as you get nearer Anfield. A bit busier coming back of course. I usually start walking towards town (downhill in the main, so pretty easy) after a game and pick up a bus en route as it's heaving around Anfield post-match. I do recall that there was some sort of redevelopment going on around Paradise Street when I was in Liverpool before the season, so it may be that the buses start at a temporary stop nearby, but you can probably check it out on the internet

Even though the Travelodge in the docks is a walk away from downtown proper it's probably no more than 15-20 minutes from Paradise Street bus station on foot where the 26 (or is it 27?) bus goes from and drops off outside the Kop.

That's because his standards are so high. He was way better than the likes of Lampard, who was very pedestrian

Gray was basing his views on the preceding interview with Gerrard and chose to gave his own twisted slant on Gerrard's comments when in fact Gerrard said nothing of the sort. Other comments on this thread about united's fluency in midfield and creating chances etc seem a bit off the pace having watched their game. We created more chances than they did yesterday in our respective games and Arsenal who have been struggling against such giants as Villa and Middlesbrough (at home!) were pretty good value for their win

So Chelsea were having a few games of five-a-side for a lark over the summer presumably and nipped down the pub afterwards for a few beers and perhaps a late night curry and maybe onto a casino when someone told them the league started next week, against all expectation, and what's more they had to go to Cardiff the next day and play a game against a super-fit team from the north. Yes, in the circumstances I suppose they must have been well under-prepared. If only they knew the season was about to start and they were required to play it would have been much fairer.

I had a pee next to Cally in the bog at Hillsborough when we were in one of our semi-finals there, after he'd retired. He was very short and I'm no giant, but I towered above him. Saw his career from about 1964 onwards. Although he became a midfielder in the modern sense later in his career, he was an old-fashioned right-winger (or outside-right if you will, as we also used to call them in those days) and wingers were out of fashion in the Ramsey England era, hence Cally didn't get much of a look-in. Also then, as now, our players were often overlooked in favour of players from London-based teams and Man U. Tommy Smith is a prime example. Incomparably a better player than Bobby Moore, Moore was the Beckham-esque media darling of his day, played for a London club and was perceived as an all-round good guy, so Smith got a few caps when he should have got 100

So in your inelegant way I believe you are confirming that Fowler is indeed above criticism Actually, when I used to frequent Koptalk forums there were even more Fowler apologists than on here as a matter of fact

By George, I think you've got it! It's interesting that you bought into the half-fit Chelsea thing, so Maureen's propaganda against losing, or making a victory even more praiseworthy, worked even on some of our fans. We played an under-strength team and still beat them fair and square. Half-fit Chelsea my a***! I don't think the two scenarios you describe are comparable. My point was that some players seem to be totally immune from any criticism ("Robbie just needs games" "Robbie isn't getting the service") whereas usually excellent players have a couple of off games and new threads open up querying their selection, their real ability and advising the manager to rest them. I just questioned why some players - Fowler in particular - are completely immune form criticism. And Sissoko was quite outstanding against Chelsea so people were right to praise him. It depends what you mean by OK. If OK means peripheral and never remotely looking like scoring then you're right

Indeed - but I'm not one of the usual suspects who critices players at the drop of a hat after 3 league games. I highlight Fowler for illustrative purposes

Not really - he was a great player 10 years ago but is inevitably worse than when we sold him to Leeds (when he was already past it), but people tip-toe around his bad performances. Real up and coming stars, who are the future of the club, like Alonso, have a couple of indifferent games and he's absolutely slaughtered. Even Sissoko, who I reckon has been our best player this season in his few perfomances - and just about the only one to emerge from the derby with any credit - also has people querying his ability (he even has a thread on here dedicated to this!). But Fowler plays badly in both league appearances and not a peep about dropping him - not the merest hint of criticism. I'm just pointing out the paradox. Has anyone else noticed it?

I know what you mean. My daughter - for reasons that I can't fathom - gets the Mirror. I read yesterday's edition and, although I'd seen us put out a weakened team and coast through the game without any trouble at all - and maybe should have won - their report was extremely negative and if I hadn't seen it I would have thoght we'd been outplayed and were very lucky to come away with a draw. But it's not universally known as the Daily Manc for nothing I suppose.

I expect them to do well too - I confidently predict they'll get to 10th position

A mere handful of games is far too early to form any opinion - although it's a popular hobby on here - instant judgement and condemnation are everywhere. I'm happy that Benitez rates him, having had him in his squad before, so he's the only one in a psoition to judge him

And paradoxically, some players who have been awful - Fowler springs to mind - get away scot-free from any criticism. It's a funny old game!

How can a clean sheet be unconvincing? I'll settle for a few more like last night to add to the 29 clean sheets he kept last last season. Well let's thank God that teams didn't catch on to how suspect he was in those areas in the 29 games he kept clean sheets in last season and they've only just noticed. Thanks for the tipoff, I'll count how many goals he concedes in those suspect areas now that the cat's out of the bag The set-piece one really gets my goat. Andy Gray spouts it too. In fact statistics show that we conceded fewer goals last season from set-pieces than any other premiership club and using our "dodgy" zonal marking system we kept 33 clean sheets in all competitions, 22 clean sheets in the league and, I believe at one point went 11 games on the trot without conceding a goal. But no - Reina's all of a sudden a dodgy keeper and we are very weak at set-pieces. As the old saying goes, a lie will be half-way round the world before the truth has got its boots on

Although as Rafa correctly pointed out, Fabregas was pants until about February with much talk of burn-out and being unable to fill the void left by Vieira but then he's somehow short-listed for young player of the year. Sissoko had a better season, improving immensely month on month but didn't even get a sniff of a nomination. Personally I'd much prefer Momo to Fabregas and it's obvious he's going to be a truly immense player. If he was playing for the media darlings of Man U Arsenal or the Chavs he'd be getting the media hype that Fagregas does.