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Guest Red Mist

Arnie will TERMINATE Tookie the gangsta

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The focus should not be on these bigots and their right wing agenda, but on how to replace them and what to do when they've finally been ousted.

 

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Maybe the point is that it is not the elected leaders who actually govern us and dictate policy but their paymasters at the top of the biggest global corporations (although there is a bit of overlap here with the likes of Rumsfeld). How do we go about ousting them exactly?

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So did they ask Tookie where he got the name for the Crips from or what?

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thought it was always taken to be that it was a variation on 'crib'? although i have once heard that it was an acronym for 'california revolution in progress', which seems a bit hollywood.

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No, I was challenging your assertion that this issue had nothing to do with Schwarzenegger when it has everything to do with him.  If you find anything I've said about Arnie being a scorpion (?) then feel free to link to it.

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You wrote: "FFS...Arnie is in a position to influence that law, to change that law and didn't. The law will be 'the problem' for eternity if no-one ever tries to change it!"

Clearly you are outraged that arnie has turned out to be exactly what he is - just like the frog in the fable I mentioned. You're stuck on getting excited about Arnie being a bad man as if that is the important issue. It isn't. Get over it.

 

You are misstating my assertion. My assertion is that this issue should be about the stupid law, not a stupid man.

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Guest Scot
You wrote: "FFS...Arnie is in a position to influence that law, to change that law and didn't.  The law will be 'the problem' for eternity if no-one ever tries to change it!"

Clearly you are outraged that arnie has turned out to be exactly what he is - just like the frog in the fable I mentioned. You're stuck on getting excited about Arnie being a bad man as if that is the important issue. It isn't. Get over it.

 

You are misstating my assertion. My assertion is that this issue should be about the stupid law, not a stupid man.

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The issue is about both stupid law and man. My frustration is with you, Dan not him. You're absolving him of any responsibility, allowing him to say 'well it's the law'. Slavery was the law until someone stepped up to change it. This is an issue for state's rights, it would not have been out of place for Schwarzenegger to grant clemency and then suggest that California re-consider the death penalty. That is leadership. His party or his identity are not at issue. I'm taking issue instead with your blanket assertion that we should be concentrating on the law rather than the man. The Governor is the titular head of the government in California. If he cannot or will not effect this change then who do you suggest should?

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The issue is about both stupid law and man.  My frustration is with you, Dan not him.  You're absolving him of any responsibility, allowing him to say 'well it's the law'.  Slavery was the law until someone stepped up to change it.  This is an issue for state's rights, it would not have been out of place for Schwarzenegger to grant clemency and then suggest that California re-consider the death penalty.  That is leadership.  His party or his identity are not at issue.  I'm taking issue instead with your blanket assertion that we should be concentrating on the law rather than the man.  The Governor is the titular head of the government in California.  If he cannot or will not effect this change then who do you suggest should?

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The people who put their 'x' in the little box. Laws change because people want them to, not because governors, presidents or prime ministers decide they should. You mentioned slavery - do you think it would have been abolished in the US without the serious backing of the plebs? Schwarzenegger and Bush are irrelevant. I'm not pardoning Schwarzenegger, but there is nothing to be gained from whining about how he's done exactly what his political affiliations, past record and stated opinions suggested he would do. He's a d****ead, but what is to be gained from pointing that out? Anti-Death penalty Campaigners should be attacking the laws, not the personalities who implement them.

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Guest Scot
The people who put their 'x' in the little box. Laws change because people want them to, not because governors, presidents or prime ministers decide they should. You mentioned slavery - do you think it would have been abolished in the US without the serious backing of the plebs? Schwarzenegger and Bush are irrelevant. I'm not pardoning Schwarzenegger, but there is nothing to be gained from whining about how he's done exactly what his political affiliations, past record and stated opinions suggested he would do. He's a d****ead, but what is to be gained from pointing that out? Anti-Death penalty Campaigners should be attacking the laws, not the personalities who implement them.

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In order for it to be voted for it needs to be on the ballot. For it to be on the ballot someone needs to stand for it.

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Guest Red Mist
Dear god Arnie:

How can he apologise if he (says he) is innocent?

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Well clearly Arnie does not accept Tookie's plea of innocence. He wants Tookie to admit he's guilty and apologise for it, and had he done so, he might have been pardoned and instead of execution, would have been given life behind bars.

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This is an incredibly sad story. I've been following it over the last while and I'm lost for words. Granted the guy is no saint but he's had a short lifetime already in jail.Before that he lived like the animal he was brought up to be amonst other animals. Kill or be killed. It's not nice at all but it was the situation he grew up in.

 

He's done so much since going to jail to reverse the harm he's done. His books are read to kids in school nowadays to try an educate regarding gang warfare etc.

 

I believe people can change and the thing for me unless I'm wrong here is that he wasn't asking for freedom just not to be murdereded after over 20 years in jail.

 

For an actor to be in the position to give the green light is simply disparing.

 

:(

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This is an incredibly sad story. I've been following it over the last while and I'm lost for words. Granted the guy is no saint but he's had a short  lifetime already in jail.Before that he lived like the animal he was brought up to be amonst other animals. Kill or be killed. It's not nice at all but it was the situation he grew up in.

 

He's done so much since going to jail to reverse the harm he's done. His books are read to kids in school  nowadays to try an educate regarding gang warfare etc.

 

I believe people can change and the thing for me unless I'm wrong here is that he wasn't asking for freedom just not to be murdereded after over 20 years in jail.

 

For an actor to be in the position to give the green light is simply disparing.

 

:(

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:applause:

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that's not a catch 22 - that was a well constructed test

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Indeed, reports at the time suggested that it had a 100% success rate a killin witches. Which is nice.

Posts merged:

Well clearly Arnie does not accept Tookie's plea of innocence. He wants Tookie to admit he's guilty and apologise for it, and had he done so, he might have been pardoned and instead of execution, would have been given life behind bars.

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The majority of people on these boards seems to believe that he is a murderer, however he should have been granted clemency because of the good work that he did since incarceration.

 

Surely if he is so plainly guilty, but a reformed character he would be keen to admit his guilt and seek absolution? Seems to me that he didn't do that which either says that he's telling the truth and this is one huge cockup, or he's lying, in which case he is not truely reformed and does not regret his actions, in which case I couldn't give two hoots about his fate.

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The execution was wrong, even if he unrepentantly murdered 48 innoccent little kids. We, as a society, should not kill (in cold blood). End of story.

Edited by DanielS

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The execution was wrong, even if he unrepentantly murdered 48 innoccent little kids. We, as a society, should not kill. End of story.

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I wasn't really commenting on whether execution was right or wrong as that is a matter of opinion and has been discussed at length elsewhere.

 

What I am suggesting is that people are backing him on the basis of the good work he has done since incarceration. Seems to me that ifhe did kill those people yet still won't admit it, then that argument has little grounds and the man is no less deserving of whatever penalty the state of California doles out to other murderers, whether that is life imprisonment, death or whatever.

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I wasn't really commenting on whether execution was right or wrong as that is a matter of opinion and has been discussed at length elsewhere.

 

What I am suggesting is that people are backing him on the basis of the good work he has done since incarceration. Seems to me that ifhe did kill those people yet still won't admit it, then that argument has little grounds and the man is no less deserving of whatever penalty the state of California doles out to other murderers, whether that is life imprisonment, death or whatever.

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Furry muff. I agree for what it is worth about the argument not having as much weight as it could if he is not showing any contrition, but the only argument needed should be the general argument about the penalty itself being contra-social.

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Guest Red Mist

Tookie founded one of the most bloody and murderous gangs in America, he's not exactly a nice chap, nor someone who seems incapable of murder (after all, he did create a gang that murders rather frequently).

 

I oppose the death penalty so I disagree with him being executed, but releasing him because he claims to be reformed would have been madness. He was on deathrow, of course he's going to say he regrets his evil past etc. he'll do and say whatever it takes to save his a***. That's no comfort for the families of the people he is alleged to have murdered (and has been found guilty of), or the familes of the many victims of the Crips.

 

Tookie got what was coming I'm afraid.

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Guest Scot
Tookie founded one of the most bloody and murderous gangs in America, he's not exactly a nice chap, nor someone who seems incapable of murder (after all, he did create a gang that murders rather frequently).

 

I oppose the death penalty so I disagree with him being executed, but releasing him because he claims to be reformed would have been madness. He was on deathrow, of course he's going to say he regrets his evil past etc. he'll do and say whatever it takes to save his a***. That's no comfort for the families of the people he is alleged to have murdered (and has been found guilty of), or the familes of the many victims of the Crips.

 

Tookie got what was coming I'm afraid.

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He wasn't asking to be released

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Tookie founded one of the most bloody and murderous gangs in America, he's not exactly a nice chap, nor someone who seems incapable of murder (after all, he did create a gang that murders rather frequently).

 

I oppose the death penalty so I disagree with him being executed, but releasing him because he claims to be reformed would have been madness. He was on deathrow, of course he's going to say he regrets his evil past etc. he'll do and say whatever it takes to save his a***. That's no comfort for the families of the people he is alleged to have murdered (and has been found guilty of), or the familes of the many victims of the Crips.

 

Tookie got what was coming I'm afraid.

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He was asking for clemency,not release?!!

:wacko:

The rest of your life in San Quentin isn't exactly the life of Riley.

Edited by Pretty Boy

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