Are you needed even if you are the best in the world?

[Guest Kaizer]

Just read something on another site that got me thinking.

 

Should a player play most of the time if he is the best player in the world in his position?

 

A lot of people are saying Mascherano is the best defensive midfielder in the world, I`m not going into that exact debate right now, but he certainly is among the group that should be considered for this title, but for the sake of the argument lets all agree that he is the best defensive midfielder in the world.

 

My point is, even if Mascherano is the best defensive midfielder in the world, should he start most of our matches or is having the best player in this exact position something a team happily can do without?

 

Personally I think Alonso-Gerrard should be our first choice partnership in CM and neither of them are the worlds best defensive midfielder if you follow my logic.

 

For me the DM position is a position that only teams that play a certain system should rely on as one of the most vital parts of their set up, we dont play such a system and we dont have the quality needed in other positions to justify using the the best defensive midfielder in the world most of the time, unless Gerrard is moved wide.

 

So when someone asks you if you really do consider not playing the best defensive midfielder in the world most of the time, my answer would be why not.

[Hassony]

gerrard should play on the right, with masch and alonso in the middle

[Guest Kaizer]

gerrard should play on the right, with masch and alonso in the middle

 

Yes I agree completely with that, but that was not really the point of the thread.

[hideNseek]

gerrard should play on the right, with masch and alonso in the middle

 

 

Thats the way I see it too, particularly in the big games.

[Hassony]

Yes I agree completely with that, but that was not really the point of the thread.

i know

[Lee W]

I'd have Mascherano and Alonso for tough away games (European and top four) where get a blend of playmaking and 'destroying' and against everyone else I'd opt for Gerrard and Alonso.

 

All depends on what tactics you want, but despite all the hype I still think Gerrard is the best right-midfielder in the country, just as effective there and more than often turns 4-4-2 into 4-3-3.

Edited September 27, 2007 by Lee W

[John am Rhein]

I'm not sure if Mascherano is the best CM in the world, but I reckon he's the best at Liverpool FC. I'd say yes, he should be first choice for us.

[Guest Kaizer]

I'm not sure if Mascherano is the best CM in the world, but I reckon he's the best at Liverpool FC. I'd say yes, he should be first choice for us.

 

But first choice DM or first choice CM?

 

This the thing for me, I dont think Mascherano has got enough in his game to get the starting spot on regular basis instead of Gerrard or Alonso in CM unless Gerrard is used out right and we play all three of them.

[Guest Lennon]

I dont think Mascherano has got enough in his game to get the starting spot on regular basis.

 

Are there any Liverpool players you do like?

[Guest Finnan3]

Just read something on another site that got me thinking.

 

Should a player play most of the time if he is the best player in the world in his position?

 

A lot of people are saying Mascherano is the best defensive midfielder in the world, I`m not going into that exact debate right now, but he certainly is among the group that should be considered for this title, but for the sake of the argument lets all agree that he is the best defensive midfielder in the world.

 

My point is, even if Mascherano is the best defensive midfielder in the world, should he start most of our matches or is having the best player in this exact position something a team happily can do without?

 

Personally I think Alonso-Gerrard should be our first choice partnership in CM and neither of them are the worlds best defensive midfielder if you follow my logic.

 

For me the DM position is a position that only teams that play a certain system should rely on as one of the most vital parts of their set up, we dont play such a system and we dont have the quality needed in other positions to justify using the the best defensive midfielder in the world most of the time, unless Gerrard is moved wide.

 

So when someone asks you if you really do consider not playing the best defensive midfielder in the world most of the time, my answer would be why not.

 

You dont play "the best DM in the world" against s**** teams at home. Because an Alonso and Gerrard partnership should suffice. But what the hell is the point of this thread anyway.

[Guest Finnan3]

Are there any Liverpool players you do like?

 

Ian Rush, sort of.

[Guest Kaizer]

Are there any Liverpool players you do like?

 

I like Mascherano but why focus on me, I`m not the issue here.

 

It was a point about even if you could be seen as the best defensive midfielder in the world would that mean he should be a regular starter since he had the "worlds best" tag.

 

I could say that Pennant was the best non goalscoring winger in the world, that would not mean he should start every game even if he had the "worlds best" tag.

[Guest Finnan3]

I like Mascherano but why focus on me, I`m not the issue here.

 

It was a point about even if you could be seen as the best defensive midfielder in the world would that mean he should be a regular starter since he had the "worlds best" tag.

 

I could say that Pennant was the best non goalscoring winger in the world, that would not mean he should start every game even if he had the "worlds best" tag.

 

What you need to remember is that we have 25 + first teamers and each will play as and when the manager (not you, yet) sees fit.

[Guest Lennon]

I like Mascherano but why focus on me, I`m not the issue here.

 

It was a point about even if you could be seen as the best defensive midfielder in the world would that mean he should be a regular starter since he had the "worlds best" tag.

 

I could say that Pennant was the best non goalscoring winger in the world, that would not mean he should start every game even if he had the "worlds best" tag.

 

Bit like not playing our best striker against Brum?

[Guest Kaizer]

What you need to remember is that we have 25 + first teamers and each will play as and when the manager (not you, yet) sees fit.

 

This is a theoretical issue, we all know our CM`s will be rotated, so no, I have not forgot that.

[John am Rhein]

But first choice DM or first choice CM?

 

This the thing for me, I dont think Mascherano has got enough in his game to get the starting spot on regular basis instead of Gerrard or Alonso in CM unless Gerrard is used out right and we play all three of them.

 

DM is CM

 

I think Gerrard should be on the right side - that's where he's most effective - and it also means the team can accommodate both Alonso and Mascherano, both of whom are far better than Pennant or anyone else who's going to play RM.

[Guest Kaizer]

DM is CM

 

I think Gerrard should be on the right side - that's where he's most effective - and it also means the team can accommodate both Alonso and Mascherano, both of whom are far better than Pennant or anyone else who's going to play RM.

 

I agree on all this.

 

But DM is a specialized CM role, its not exactly a big issue for me this one, I just started thinking about it when someone said it would be stupid to leave out "the best DM in the world" from our regular set up.

 

In our case I dont think it would be as long as we dont use Gerrard out wide to play all three off Alonso, Mascherano and Gerrard, but its all theory, because they will all play through rotation in reality.

[IgPig]

Its all about the team - whichever works best even if that means leaving out world class players.

[fred milne]

I'm not sure if Mascherano is the best CM in the world, but I reckon he's the best at Liverpool FC.

I don't agree with this. (I think its Alonso.)

 

I think Gerrard should be on the right side - that's where he's most effective - and it also means the team can accommodate both Alonso and Mascherano, both of whom are far better than Pennant or anyone else who's going to play RM.

But I do agree with this.

[Leo No.8]

Liverpool in having lots of top class central midfielders but can't play them all at once shocker.

 

Kaizer I've got a coaching badge but can't think deeply enough to realise that Alonso, Mascherano and Gerrard are all f*cking good - what am I doing wrong?

 

It doesn't make a jot of difference whether you define Mascherano as 'World Class' or 'The Best in the World', as both terms are entirely subjective; you could call Gerrard the 'best attacking central midfielder in the World' or Alonso 'the best long range passer in the World' as well.

 

It's just the same bloody debate we've been having since Mascherano arrived, but made to sound like Kaizer is having some sort of visionary insight. It basically comes down to practically any club in the World would want the three in their first team, but Gerrard has to play on the right or off the front man (which probably won't happen anymore thank God) for it to be the possible.

 

The balance of our team and the level of opposition are considerations and Rafa is extremely spoilt being able to move around three players in midfield of such quality. Personally I'd agree with all those who have said see how we get on with Gerrard on the right for a few games if Alonso was fit, but as it stands he'll largely carry on playing in the middle and we don't really have to talk about this for once.

 

Yet here we are, furrowing our brows, sitting cross-legged and murmuring our soft chants - wondering if a tree falls in the woods yet nobody hears it does it make a sound, and if you have two central midfield places and three great central midfielders, does one have to play on the right?

 

If and when through these contemplations you do reach a hgher state on consciousness, tell Kaizer to climb out of his own a*** and go and have his rice crispies.

Edited September 28, 2007 by Leo No.8

[Guest Kaizer]

Leo No.8 I think you have misunderstood.

 

It was someone else saying it would be insane leaving out the best defensive midfielder in the world from the team, I`m just asking would it really even if he is the best DM in the world, and my answer would be no.

[Puskas]

Didn't we have a long Alonso vs. Mascherano thread not long ago? Couldn't this have gone in there?

 

Anyhoo - Masch is clearly the best defensive midfielder in the world and I will make it a personal crusade to post a thread in here bitching about rotation every time he doesn't start.

[fred milne]

Didn't we have a long Alonso vs. Mascherano thread not long ago? Couldn't this have gone in there?

This is turning into more of a Mascherano vs Pennant thread.

[Puskas]

This is turning into more of a Mascherano vs Pennant thread.

Well, neither of them score very often, so they have that in common.

 

I've changed my mind () Masch doesn't offer enough of a goal threat and therefore should be sold immediately and replaced by a defensive midfielder who also scores goals.

[Guest Anders Honoré]

This is turning into more of a Mascherano vs Pennant thread.

 

when it's not derailed by taking shots at kaizer. He's making a decent point, don't see any reason to personalise it so much here.

 

For me, it's not so much a pennant vs. Mascherano thread (He hasn't proved himself significantly better than yossi or babel just yet to be the outstanding choice) as it is the question of how much we need the extra attacking midfielder to make sure we get the goals we need which was our biggest problem last year and our biggest challenge still this year, particularly away from home. Last couple of games would suggest it's something that hasn't been ironed out as much as we would like.

 

Certainly, if/when we're gonna bench someone like Torres, I'd say it's imperative we start with gerrard in the centre in order to have another attacking midfielder on the right. If we had genuinely outstanding attacking players on the left and up front, I'd play masch and xabi in the centre in a heartbeat every game with gerrard on the right, but right now we have Torres, an increasingly theoretical Kewell, and a bunch of good but not great players to battle it out for the rest. I think we need more and having an extra man committed to going forwards seems the most obvious solution to me at right now, especially considering that a xabi-gerrard axis will dominate 80% of the premiershio with ease without leaving much work for our otherwise excellent defence.