Davvo

Whilst I wouldn't be betting my house on the likelihood of us being crowned champions next May, I sure to hell hope the players, manager, and fans, are going for the title.

This all day long. I worried about a forward role being too much for his body at this stage of his career, but he was superb last night. Measured and dynamic in perfectly balanced amounts. Played a lot differently to the more dynamic role he had in behind Torres, promising.

Agreed. Good step forward. Being greedy I'd like another forward player on top of that, especially if we ship Cole out and loan Sterling (which I thought was rumoured?), but wouldn't complain at all, especially if the Carroll deal involved loan to buy.

Really don't think you can overstate the importance of such a player if you're a passing, pressing team. Having someone capable of stepping up into midfield, carrying the ball out comfortably, enables the whole system.

Honest question, as you've clearly been getting some decent inside info. When you say 'suggests' 'seems' 'hope' etc are you saying that you are assuming this, putting bits and pieces together, or that you have been told that is the case here, that we are actively looking to sell or at least accept a big fee, for Agger ?

It's pure profit too, his value on the books is virtually zero. Still thnk it's a mistake from footballing persepctive.

Lilly?

Not rubbish at all, and like I've said here previously people are talking about perception of him as a player. This talk of how many goals he scored and stuff, did you know those stats then Earl ? There was definitely opinion similar to that held by a few on here it seems, so whether or not your view was different doesn't make others opinions, memories and perceptions invalid. If you dont remember people thinking it was a gamble then fine, but they did, and plenty of them too.

Good.

Agree I've seen loads more of Walcott, and you're right my view of Barnes pre 87 is more perception than informed opinion.

Like I said a memory of the overall perception of the player at the time. Likely gleaned from highlights at watford, england matches, newspaper match reports, journo opinions etc etc. Certainly not from stats, his exact goal scoring record would have passed me by I'm sure, as would any other stat, though they weren't really mentioned back then that I remember. I remember the player scoring a wonder goal agaisnt Brazil, then not much more, and I guess you'd have expected an Italian club to have snapped him up, as they did with Souey, Rush etc if he'd been that highly thought of at Watford. Watford's kick and rush football probably didn't help that. Are you getting your opinion from memory or from his goal stats ? Not being funny, just asking. If you want me to say his goal stats suggest he was a consistent goal scorer, then of course how could I argue otherwise.

I wonder if most only remember John Barnes of Liverpool ? One of the top 3 players we've had most likely, subjective though all these comparisons can be. I certainly never saw him much other than highlights before we got him, and perhaps mostly for Engerlund, for whom he was generally used pretty badly by each manager. My perception of him pre Liverpool was no higher than that of Walcott now to be honest, and I think that's what DH was getting at. People suggesting he was actually comparing Walcott now with the Barnes we all remember in red need to have a word really. Disagree with what you thought of Barnes pre87 by all means, as SwanRed does.

Pretty sure you asked for that line to be honest Swan Red, you were getting personal. No need whatsoever, and didn't sound remotely like a joke,just discuss the merits of your argument and we'll all be fine. I'll leave it now because we disagree and your line of argument is becoming odd quite frankly. I was merely pointing out what I remembered as the general perception of his signing at the time, and it wasn't like we'd ust signed the hottest property in the game, that's for sure, very much seen as a gamble by many. Still, you remember it differently, and I'm fine with that. Aye sounds right.

Plus we signed Aldo before Rush left didn't we ? He was defo here at the beginning of the 87/88 season.

Plenty. No guarantees Lucas will be at the races from the off, Gerrard likely to pick up knocks, Henderson and Allen still young and learning.

Haha who's put something in your tea this morning Been watching us since 1977 thanks, not that I need to justify it to the likes of you.

I have a completely different recollection sorry, and his goal stats do nothing to change that at all. Just different memories I suppose. I've had to do some digging though to see if there's any quotes from the time or stories. First one that jumps out is Ferguson turning down the chance to sign him from Watford, because he was happy with Jesper Olsen. That goal against Brazil came about 3 years before his move to us too, a goal which prompted Zico to say he was the future of English football aparently, though it took 3 years for anyone to consider buying him from little Watford. After that goal he definitely went backwards in terms of perceived ability. The jump in quality playing with Beardsley, Houghton etc was massive.

Yes, that's what's happening.

He was an out and out winger with pace and an eye for goal at Watford, very much just a raw fast lad playing in a yard dog team playing mostly long ball football. The transformation as he fitted in at Liverpool was stunning quite frankly, totally different player altogether.

Thought we were talking about him as a player, not a goalscorer. Lets dig up the stats for dribbles, chances created, pass completion, yards covered.... it was a shock signing, he wasn't that well thought of, and certainly not as a Liverpool player. His transformation was remarkable, playing in a much different role to that he'd played at Watford, and especially for engerlund. Johnson has plenty in him to be a decent signing, especially on loan. Great option of the bench for definite, though I'd agree he's been hit and miss when played form the start. If he had a season like one of many good ones Daley or Rod W put in I wouldn't complain either to be honest. Be very happy to take him as a loanee and see how he goes, maybe get better next Summer on permanent deal if we're top 4, or maybe he comes good. Don't see a downside of loaning him really.

Correct. It was seen as taking a big chance on a raw, inconsistent player.

Aye it's easy to rationalise selling Agger looking at age/injuries etc, but what are we trying to do here ? If he's got a rabbit (who can play CB) up his sleeve, then fair play to the man. If anyone's actually seen a lot Swansea, there's one thing I'm interested in. I know I , like most, assumed Agger was a perfect fit for Rodgers style of play, but does he actually like his CB's to bring the ball out, or just hold position and play easy balls ? There was a comment he made about Shelvey, and how if he learned to stick to his central zone of the pitch and control it, he'd be a top player, or something like that, that made me wonder about this. What if his system relies on the CB's staying put, so as the 2 more attacking CM's don't have to be concerned with covering, and the fullbacks can also bomb on when they like. Could be, and probably is, s****, but I'd still be interested to know if this Williams character, and/or his central partner, ever 'did a Hansen'.

The people with the most money will win. I'd prefer it to be different, but it wont be. These deals Chelsea, City, and I think PSG, have announced with sponsors/partners are a clear attempt to bypass the rules. I also think you're underestimating just how many sugar daddys there are out there, capable of buying one of 16-20 clubs required to ruin the game completely with a breakaway. Do you think UEFA will do anything about it ? There would be lawsuits all over the place.

Unenforceable and always has been. If UEFA forces the issue clubs will threaten to walk away from them, and there are enough money men around to form some breakaway league that will effectively ruin UEFA anyway, making their European money making competitions worthless to sponsors etc. I think UEFA know this and are just going through the motions, it'll take them years to investigate and/or try and close any loopholes. It's a half hearted attempt to calm the wider 'footballing family'. The only way it could ever work is in a franchise system, with elements of revenue sharing and the like, which wouldn't appeal to any of the current stakeholders I shouldn't think.

It's what we know publically. It's equally as likely that he spoke privately with FSG, not wishing to rock the boat with Swansea. I'm afraid I don't believe for a moment that he turned down the chance to interview, only being prepared to talk when he was made 1st choice. I also think he's exactly the type of manager to take on a 'project', even if there are limitations in terms of spending etc. He seems very confident in his abilities, highly likely to back himself in most situations by the sound of him. Still, early days and all that. As someone else has said, he could just be struggling to move players around, it wouldn't be the first time at our club, nor for any new manager at any club really.