uncle bob

Arbeloa cost £2.5M - that wasn't cheap for a full back Josemi cost £2m 4 years ago for a full back who was absolute sh*te and presumably bought to replace Riise.

Dont miss quote me to try an win your argument Houllier BOUGHT better full backs than Rafa Have not dismissed Reira accepted he may be a good player, but time will tell Have never dismissed Istanbul again more fantasy, I said I would prefer the league title to the European Cup, that is not dismissing it. The Chelsea point I concede. Though Arsenal were in my opinion were a much harder team to beat then than now Note: where is Kaiser when you need him

And your point is? I am saying that compared to GH team, Rafa has not made as big an improvement that some think he has, considering he has spent nearly £200M bring players in. Therefore please stop stating the bl**din obvious regarding players that left before Rafa arrived or as soon as. I also understand we went down hill 2003-2004, however I wonder how much GH's heart problem took it out of him.

Purely speculating, I would not be surprised if one or the other doesn't go at the end of the season, if not both. Much depends on whether we mount an reasonable challenge for the league. And please remember GH finished second - so we weren't that bad.

Not till the ownership is resolved and a full assessment is made at the end of the season. If we are effectively out of contention for the league before end of March (bearing in mind its usually Christmas) then I do believe its worth considering.

No berk - Houliier bought better full backs than Rafa - try and keep up young man

I am talking about the state of the team at the end of Houlliers reign and the current team so it is relevant

Carragher, Gerrard, Hamman, Hypia??? Also believe Cisse better than Babel. As stated both full backs under GH better Heskey/Kuyt - very little in it Murhy/Benayoun again very little in it Berger better than Pennant Also don't forget Gary Mac Too much dismissal of GH players.

We probably would of gotten him for less than we needed for Barry. Simple point I am making - under GH whose achievements are too easily dismissed, he left with a team that had a good goalkeeper, excellent defence two exceptional central midfield players and a great striker. Four years on and nearly £200m spent on players and that is exactly were we are today. Some may believe the fringe players are better now but against that I believe our full backs bought by GH were better than Rafa's.

I know someone who trained every day with Cheyrou - they thought he would be as good as Zindane

I said I believed he may be a good player, you obviously regard him a something special - we shall see.

Because its the 'beautiful game'

Arrested development is probably apt

Well I am as old if not older than your 'old man', however amongst my peer group, we regard the league title as the principle target, the European Cup, the icing on the cake. And I haven't dismissed Riera, but do you honestly feel inspired by his signing.

Try looking through some of the other threads regarding Rafa to see if I am in a minority of one in believing we will not win the league under Rafa. I too was made up in 2005 but that was three years ago. Regarding my comments about GH and Rafa having a strong defence and spine - again read previous postings on other similar threads. its the same old same old, we need quality full backs and wide players to give us more width. Exactly the position we were in 4 years ago. Its not a badge of loyalty to believe Rafa is the second coming.

Dont be so silly, never said European Cup was a mickey mouse trophy, just that I value the league title more. Try reading what is said before you start typing silly one liners

Grow up - F** all to do with G&H. Its do do with the quality of football we play, the overly cautious approach and the poor league performances. From previous posts I was under the impression that Hicks is now a big supporter of Rafa. But don't let the facts get in the way of another ill informed jibe to disguise you own weak argument.

He will get all the respect and more when we win the trophy I value and most fans use to value above all others - The League title. It would also be nice to beat the Manx in the league once in a while.

Regarding wide players etc read my posts properly then you will see I have suggested better wingers than we have and who can say if the price was right we couldn't buy them. The point about Owen was under Houllier we had a string defence and spine with exceptional striker. That is exactly were we are today.

So am I and thank God for our Captain that night, yet again.

In the Prem, Young, SWP or Bentley. Yes I don't know enough about foreign players to be sure who we should buy but yes I am not the manager who has a network of scouts all over the world.

And GH came second in the league and had a very good record against the manx. We can all pick and choose, but it doesn't hid the fact that when GH left, we had a good goalkeeper and defence, two excellent central midfield players and a great striker. Which is more or less were we are now after 4 years and nearly £200m spent on players of his choosing (and yes I am not including what he has got back)

So its wrong OK to comment on Rafa's shortcomings, but OK to rubbish GH's achievements. - Get real