David Hodgson

Yeah. You watch these things usually and wonder what the player did for the rest of the game . Nothing more Naby could've done in that one except for go in goal and save a pen.

I suspect it is being advanced behind the scenes, albeit too slowly for our liking. I wonder if the increased revenues they're seeing are beginning to dwarf the cost of the expansion and that they might come to see the value in a bigger ground in a different light. Match day income is diminishing in its value to the big clubs, but I think FSG may come to realise that there other benefits of a larger stadium than just a simple ROI. circa £50m expands the Anny Rd doesn't it ? That's becoming small change. Almost worth doing for 'the business' for the prestige of it. The stadium gets to eventually host a final and good PR accrues from that. A bigger Anfield becomes part of the process of presenting LFC as a bigger club. To sponsors, to players. And bottom of their list of benefits may even be that they get a PR win with the fans. Don't know. Maybe wishful thinking.

I hear that argument and I just don't know where the truth lies. My biggest criticism of them is that they have consistently misunderstood what value is in the transfer market. I don't think they are holding back, being tight, settling for second best, but I do believe they are applying principles of good financial husbandry but based on flawed assumptions. I think (but can't be sure) that Dembele is a classic example of this. Klopp wanted him a year ago but he chose Dortmund. The fee was £11m and I'll bet his wage was no more than £50k a week. I suspect we matched the wage and fee offer, based on some valuation model Edwards has derived. The problem with matching is that the player then makes a choice based on factors we can't control - such as where he wants to live, what kind of prospects the club has etc. If we offer £18m for Dembele and offer him £80k a week in wages, we blow Dortmund away. It's a massive overpayment, but its affordable and is based on the principle that you believe the player will hugely increase his value and quickly. If you don't believe that you shouldn't be buying him, because we don't need £11m players in our squad. This mistake gets made time and time again. Of course its easier not to be caught making it when you are in the Champions league and have a very persuasive and talented manager.

Yeah. Reminds me of Maradona.

I agree with most of that (although I'll never 'thank them for saving us'. they just saw a good deal). For the first time in a long time I feel the club is well placed to push on, across the spectrum. I think we'll see development of Anny Rd within 5 years. I think we are already seeing signs that Liverpool are competing at the highest end of the transfer market that I can ever remember. I see signs that there are less strictures on wage budgets too. Financially the club seems in rude health. The manager has the potential to be as good as any manager we've ever had, and the current squad is probably the strongest it's been since August 2008. We operate in a ridiculously competitive environment but we seem well placed to have a say in all competitions. Jurgen would say we should all 'believe' and pull together. I'm up for a bit of that. It's certainly more enjoyable that way. There's a good living to be made being there or thereabouts in the modern game, but there's much more money in being better and winning things. Winning European cups and leagues and having the world's most famous names has far bigger brand value than finishing 4th or 5th. Fsg will want to win. It'll be in their corporate DNA. They will want to be associated with success and reap the financial rewards that will accrue from that. Broadly speaking, unless a club is a charity, fan owned, a vanity project or a marketing vehicle, owners are going to be in it for the money. We have to live with that until we can find a fan ownership model that is achievable and workable. I think the increase in money in the game will serve to bring about the Anny Rd development sooner rather than later.

I suppose I just don't see the point in the negativity and vitriol against an entity as 'ok' as FSG. I can be not thrilled with them but also not feel that 'f*ck off FSG' serves any purpose. Hating them, campaigning (even if only on twitter or wherever) to 'get them out' seems a disproportionate response to the areas in which FSG fall short. As I've consistently said (I think), I rate them as 6 out of 10. As the glass being half full. I like the idea of maintaining reasonable pressure on them. I think we should 'work' with them. I think crying 'FSG out !' serves zero purpose.

I agree with part of this, but some of it is just looking for sticks to beat them with rather than regarding the detail. The £200m promise accusation - they literally spent £150m, and we know they would have paid for VVD had Southampton co-operated. I'm not even going to listen to an argument to say that wasn't the case. And let's be right - none of us expected a £200m spree before it was mentioned in the media. If you'd ask any fan around March time what would you consider to be a pleasing summer, few would've expected that level of spend. If £150m, of which around £100m is net, had been touted we'd all have been more than happy. And as for the £175m - that figure came from the media adding up bids for Lemar, VVD and Chamberlain. What was also more than possible within that context was the sale of Countinho. For Lemar read 'Coutinhos replacement'. I'm very happy we kept Coutinho and that we got Chamberlain is also a good thing. We're all obviously disappointed we didn't get VVD. I keep coming back to where we started with this year's plans. The manager targeted really good expensive players. Few of whom were actually on the market for sale. By May it had become clear we wanted VVD, Keita, Salah, AOC and a left back. At that stage we had no idea if the club had the pulling power to attract all of these players on Klopp's wish list.What we take for granted now is that the job of convincing all of these players was accomplished early. When have we ever pulled that off on such a scale before ? Unfortunately our 'securing' of VVD came at something of a price - angering his club. By July we realised that the summer was not just about strengthening it was about keeping our star player. When the window closed we had secured the services of a left back, Keita, Salah, AOC and retained Coutinho. Why retaining Coutinho in the face of massive pressure and huge money is now taken for granted amazes me. Our single 'failure' this summer was not getting VVD. He's a big miss. I think on balance, given the scale of what we set out to achieve, what the club has accomplished this summer has been broadly praise worthy. I wasn't happy with last summer's negligible spend but gave FSG a pass as Klopp seemed happy. I waited to see what their move would be if the manager actually wanted money. We now know. They've backed him, and the sense is that they will continue to do so. I'm more content with this side of how the club is being managed than I have been for some considerable time.

I think you're asking the wrong question. I don't have the power to choose LFC's owners. Nor do any of us. I'm not saying I want FSG to be LFC's owners. I'm just giving my commentary on what we have. If you give me actual practical choice I would have got rid of FSG years ago. But there has been no choice. When we hear murmurs of interest from China or the middle east I get excited though. In the absence of choice, our only role - apart from to support the team - is to watch that an ownership model doesn't go so awry as to be a danger to the very existence of the club. This happened with Hicks & Gillett. In instances such as those we had to move towards the edge of total boycotts. That isn't a position I think sane fans take lightly, unless they want their club to be seen as a poisoned chalice to all prospective future owners. If I have to answer your question - near misses forever would be disappointing, but can I ask you - what do you want me to do with that disappointment ?

Man Utd have been historically one on of the top 3 richest clubs in world football . Chelsea and City were taken over by billionaires who simply had the resources to catapult them into that league . They were unprecedented take overs. All you are saying is can we be one of the top 3 richest please. Great. I like that idea too. Wake me up when you've found the guys who will pay for that to happen. FSG continue to make some mistakes but they have not taken money out of our club, mortgaged it to the hilt, tried to move our ground to some out of town wasteland, tried to change out kit colour or name to Redbull reds LFC. Also they aren't terrible people associated with crime or violations of human rights. During their tenure we have won only the league cup, but we've been to 4 finals and missed out on the league by 2 points. It is not their fault we don't have 4 more trophies , including a title , during the 7 years in charge. They are guilty of not paying enough attention, making some bad back room appointments and being penny wise pound foolish at times. Of not really understanding the transfer market. Their track record of appointing managers is very good though. All really good choices at the time. They have built us a great new stand and kept us at Anfield but have been too slow to push on with further expansion. They have made strides in growing commercial revenues but have made embarrassing mistakes over ticket pricing. Theirs has been a mixed bag of a reign . He is a t.it. Making me miss Ian Ayre.

Yeah I liked that . Although he's a different league defensively to Gascoigne. Great over view.

It's only double counting if you double count it ffs. Of course it's this summer's investment. The funds are committed to now. Leipzig will have wanted this paying for now (substantially, at any rate). Everyone counted Origi when we bought him,not a year later.

I think we'll get him in January.

You have to compare to others. At least to the outcomes from their actions because we don't know all the behind the scenes detail. We spent £150m this summer. If Southampton weren't out to prove a point that figure would've topped £200m. I agree that it feels frustrating that we couldn't just cap things off. Not sure why that happened , whose fault it didn't happen was, or if relatively we should actually be disappointed or not.

Ha ! Yeah that's about fair. Lovren - I think he's good on his day, gets an unfairly bad press, prone to very days and we can improve on him.

It''s 'one all' (and I was being glib) because throwing Edwards in as if his apparent failings are QED that they're useless is as narrow as it would be to cite Klopp's appointment as them being heroes. They've done lots of things badly. They've done quite a few quite well. I'm loathe to list them because I will get labelled as an FSG apologist and I'm not. If I'm standing for anything it is simply that we place them in the correct perspective. That IMO is as Ok, not terrible, not great, but hey they could be a lot worse, six out of 10 merchants. What they aren't are awful or any kind of plague on our club. They are million miles away from Hicks & Gillett.

And there we have it. They're just not rich enough.

Ha ! Kinell. Literally not one rational counter argument. The nearest to an argument has been the trophies one. Sound. David Moores won us the treble in 2001 and the CL in 2005, but FSG forced Gerrard to slip v Chelsea in 2014 and prevent us from winning our only post 1990 league ? Why is everyone afraid of an assessment that involves balance, context and that may not reach any binary conclusion ? Rate FSG out of 10. Then rate the rest of the prems owners out of 10. Then rate previous LFC regimes out of 10. I'm not after praise for f*cking FSG here - I'd sell them out tomorrow . I just think this blame game is so without focus or practical meaning. Yeah, Edwards seems a really sh*t choice . Klopp was a great one. One all. Or maybe something else .

I'm not seeing that they're f*cking up in any profound way. The fact we even have an 'FSG watch' thread on a fans forum tells you all you need to know. Hicks & Gillett woke us up to how bad owners have the power to actually destroy the thing we love. It was an important wake up call, but I think it has left a chunk of our support damaged and paranoid. Owners are meant to be sh*t. They're suits who don't get football the way fans do. Shankly didn't like his board. John Smith's board got away with everything because Paisley was so good. David Moores was awful. City and Chelsea have dream owners in terms of resources but are they the greatest human beings in the world ? I'd love to know where we get this idea from that we are entitled to have lovable owners. They default to being rubbish lads. I'm happy(ish) with lessers of evil. This is not to encourage complacency, just to try and keep things in perspective and to discourage getting angry and depressed for no compelling reason. FSG remain 6 out of tenners. Fine. They'll do, warts n all, til something better turns up.

MIgnolet Gomez Matip Lovren Moreno Henderson Wijnaldum Can Salah Firmino Mane Subs : Chamberlain Coutinho Sturridge Milner Trent AA Klavan Karius

I never ever believe these 'he took a pay cut to sign' reports. Maybe in a few cases a player takes a couple of quid less, but not a reduction anywhere like 60k a week. What the report may not mention (or the journalist not know) is that a big fat signing on fee may be part of the deal.

Not being sarcastic . Those guys know their onions.

Firmino, Coutinho, come on why don't we go.... Wijnaldum, Mo Salah, come on pretty mama....

Yeah, all that, but the assertion that the club's model is sell to buy is not true, and even selling Coutinho - in the face of a near world record fee - won't change that. I expected, that if things had gone to plan that net spend would be around the £120m mark, and I didn't think that FSG should be thanked for that. There is huge money in the game now. LFC's turnover in 2017/18 will be double what it was 3 or 4 years ago. The Liverpool squad has a value that is double what it was 2 years ago. The club itself is easily worth a billion pounds now. Probably more. They don't have to sell to buy. They don't intend to sell to buy. It's a mantra I keep seeing and its palpably wrong.

You're not buying the idiot conspiracy theory that they weren't going to spend without selling Coutinho I hope ? The ideal scenario at start of summer was clearly to buy Salah, Keita and VVD and keep Coutinho . That was the club's plan. No hidden agendas. Everything else has been a variation from that desired starting point.

I think Coutinho is off. If Castles is right then 160m is too much to turn down. Lemar is the replacement . Obvious in the way we suddenly moved for him. Don't think there's any way LFC planned this summers spending around Coutinho going mind.