kick316

Voronin has looked good whenever he plays with Torres or Couch. However he has been gash when paired with Kuyt. Having said that, Rafa will probably play the latter two against Fulham.

At the moment our off the ball movement especially in the attacking third is poor. When Babel plays on the left, I often notice that when he gets the ball the options available to him are limited. He's got a decent first touch and shields the ball very well but there's just no one in a good position for him to pass the ball to. So he ends up passing it backwards or sideways. If we had a decent overlapping LB than I think we'll see a lot of improvement in our left side.

Firstly, I think you have a problem separating opinion from fact. Unless you have first hand knowledge, attempting to rationalise any decision made by someone else is speculation at best. Similarly, attempting to predict future events based on “what-ifs” and “maybes” is pure conjecture. Secondly, I understood full well what you said the first time you said it. I don’t agree with your opinion though. And where did I ever say that I was right and you were wrong? In fact this is what I said: In fact I acknowledged your viewpoint. This is a concept that you might find hard to grasp - other people might have different opinions and views, just because they don’t share yours doesn’t make them wrong. Anyway, this will my last post on this matter. If you believe that Mourinho could build something sustainable than fine. I don’t think he can. Different opinions but what difference does it make? Unless he becomes the manager of Liverpool it is of no consequence to us.

Unless you have a direct line to Mourinho and intimately know his thought processes or the situation surrounding his exit all of that is nothing more than conjecture and speculation. At the end of the day it's your opinion rather than fact. Saying it for the third time doesn't make it more of a reality than when you said it the first time. Besides who really cares anyway? All I care is that Rafa is our manager and in no way will I ever want that c*** to replace him. Didn't expect anyone to spend so much effort in defending their opinions of him on a Liverpool board...a Chelsea board maybe but definitely not on a Liverpool board.

Exactly what part of my post is "crap"? We happen to agree on most points except for one. In your OPINION, Mourinho if given the chance could stay at a particular club and build a dynasty (for lack of a better word). In my OPINION, due to his personality or due to his way of doing things, he will not stay at a club for too long (either voluntary or involuntary) but he will be a success wherever he goes for the time he is at the club. Obviously there is no way to prove which opinion is correct. So we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. It will be interesting to see how his career pans out from here. I won't be surprised to see this patern being the norm for him. He'll go to anoher club, be a success there for a few seasons and then move on to another club.

Agree with that. Getting 1 or 2 more "footballers' for our back 4 would improve our game and change the way that we play instantly.

Creating a "legacy" is helping the club achieve a long sustained period of success. Current examples of this would be Ferguson (as much as it pains me to admit that) or Wenger. The best example would be Shankly who laid the foundations that led to a long period of dominance for us. Mourinho didn't achieve that at Porto. The fact that they disintegrated after he left proves that. The success that Chelsea are having now are due to the players that they have - most of them were already there or were on the verge of joining before he was manager anyway. Mourinho is perfect for a club wishing to achieve immediate success. He was a perfect fit for a “small” club like Chelsea wanting to achieve instant success whatever the costs. Winning the back-to-back title was a fantastic achievement. The question is can he stay at a club long term and build a dynasty? So in summary: Is Mourinho as excellent manager? Absolutely. Would he win the title if he managed Liverpool? He probably would Would he able to build a dynasty? He probably wouldn’t Would I want him at Liverpool? Absolutely not!

There's no question to his record as a manager. But what did he leave behind in terms of long term "structural" improvements? For me I want to see Liverpool grow, be succesful and dominate for many many years. If it means some sacrifices in the short term than so be it.

IMO Mourinho is an “impact” manager. He comes into a club and with his excellent motivational and man-management skills he gets the players playing out of their skin. They play for him and would die for him (figuratively speaking if course). He wins trophies with the club along the way. But due to his personality and approach, this can only last for so long. In a few years he moves on. The question remains whether he can stay at a club and build an empire. In his time at Porto and Chelsea, what was his legacy? Did he bring on any young players through the ranks? Did he improve the scouting system? What long-term improvements did he put in place? I’d like to win the Premiership as much as anyone else but at the same time I want something that is sustainable for the club.

Clichy is another example of a fullback with the pace and skill to bomb forward and add so much to the team's attacking play.

Mourinho? Probably b******s...Please let it be NOT true!

There has never been any doubt on his skills and abilities. The question now is whether he can stay fit throughout the season. An on form and fit Kewell = one of the best attacking players in the league.

I think that best describes our pattern of play for the majority of the match However rather than solely blaming our negative tactics, I think that Blackburn’s gameplan was a major contributing factor. They seemed happy to stop us from playing and set out their stall early on. We are Liverpool and should expect to win all games. But we have to be practical sometimes and at the end of the day, a draw at Ewood park is not that bad a result. Other than the Birmingham and Tottenham games the results that we have had in the league have been OK (not spectacular but OK).

I was worried prior to the game. Blackburn have been in great form recently. They’ve been scoring goals and in Briedel they have IMO one of the best keepers in the league. As it turns out, Blackburn were happy to settle for a point. They did little of note (they did have 2 long range strikes that hit the crossbar but they were speculative efforts and against the run of play). We had a lot of possession and as usual, Briedel made some very good saves. They had a game plan, worked hard and were very organised. Quite often when attacking we had problems passing the ball to a red shirt because it was so congested (they probably had all 11 players back in their own half). I saw the Arsenal vs. Manc game earlier and what struck me is how mobile their back four were. They were composed, skilful and brought the ball out of defence really well. Their fullbacks are very good (Clichy and Evra are excellent players) and add so much to their attacking play. Our defence is a rock but sadly they’re about as mobile as one as well. 9 times out of 10 we hoof the ball out of defence and hand over possession back to the opposing team. Sami is a legend but can longer play every week. Carra is a fantastic “defender” but is very poor on ball for a player playing in a top team. Is age catching up with Finnan? His defensive game is still OK but has been poor going forward this season. The less said about Riise the better. We really miss Agger. A few goals this season has been a direct result of him bringing the ball out of defence. If Aurelio can stay fit than he will certainly be an asset for us. The biggest mistake Rafa has made this season is not of team selection or rotation IMO. It was not getting a top quality CB. Too much time was wasted in trying to get Heinze (who I don’t think is that good anyway).

Some random observations after catching the match on TV: - Lucas had a good solid game but tired towards the end. You can tell from his movement, touch and decision making that he is a class player. Like all great players, he always looks like he has extra time on the ball. You also get the feeling that he can step up a few gears. - Babel was OK but not spectacular playing as a striker. He had some good moments but things didn't come off for him. Once he switched to the right though he seemed like a different player. Perhaps this is his best position for now? - Having Aurelio playing left back certainly improves our passing play and ball distribution from the back. If he can stay fit he will be an asset for us. - Impressed with Hobbs. Seems to have good composure and is decent on the ball. Our defence didn't hoof the ball as much compared to our past few games. - Not sure about Leto. He's skillful and gets into good positions but is inconsistent and desision making is a bit suspect. - For some reason, I think that Arbeloa plays better on the left than on the right. - Arbeloa certainly likes his goal celebrations. I think that he was the first player to run up to both El Zhar and Gerrard for their goals.

Surely not???!!! Kenwyne Jones

We don’t live in a vacuum. Even though we improved, other teams around us are improving as well. A few seasons ago it was the “top 2” (Mancs & Arsenal), now it’s the “top 4”. It’s a lot more competitive now. Previously, you could lose and draw a few games and still be champions at the end of the season. Now if you lose a few games you’re out of the title race. For the past 2 seasons, we have comfortably made third place in the league. It was not long ago that we struggled to even make it into the top four. Is that good enough? Of course it’s not but to say there has been no improvement is just not correct. This Arsenal team are very very good. But Wenger has had 2 trophy-less seasons to build this team. It didn’t happen overnight. Hleb was slagged off last season (not just here but on Arsenal forums as well). Adebayor looked out of his depth in his first season but now looks class. Flamini didn’t feature much and I remember many calling him s**** etc etc. Rafa’s been here 3 years but in that time he has won a lot of trophies. With the current climate, would he have the luxury of time to build a title challenging team if it meant lack of short term success?

I completely agree with you. Playing 3 centre mids also brings out the best in Gerrard. With the players that we have I think this is the way to go.

What I think our main problems are:- - Too many mediocre strikers (Kuyt, Voronin, Crouch). They work hard but lack that bit of class needed for a team fighting for honors - Lack of quality (attacking wise) down the flanks - With Agger out, lack of quality backup in the center of defence (Sami is a legend but age has caught up with him) I think the additions of Alves, Quaresma and Anelka would do wonders for the team. We can still play our normal game but our ball retention, pace and creativity would improve considerably. In: Alves, Quaresma, Anelka (don’t know how much these 3 would cost though) Out: Voronin, Crouch, Riise, Sissoko, Kewell Keep Kuyt, Pennant, Finnan, Benayoun and Aurelio as squad players We probably need a good CH as well, but with Agger coming back perhaps this can wait until the summer. What do you think of this: …..............Reina Alves...Carra..Agger...Arbeloa Gerrard..Mascherano..Alonso ..Torres...Anelka...Quaresma or ..................Reina Alves....Carra..Agger....Arbeloa Quaresma..Gerrard..Alonso..Babel ...........Torres..Anelka

So......was Benitez wrong in subbing Gerrard? Is Gerrard putting himself before the club? Bobby Robson's view Another interesting article Of particular interest is the following quote from the second link above: I think this 61 page thread proves that!

Mourinho even said that "there was something wrong with his head" or something to that effect after Carvalho moaned to the press regarding his lack of playing time. As public put downs go, that was pretty extreme.

For what its worth, on the LFC TV “This Is Anfield” programme, Roy Evans was on discussing about the derby match. He basically said that although the substitution was a surprise, the fact that we won basically meant that the decision was correct. He also said that those are the kind of big decisions the manager needs to make. Anyway, he certainly didn’t make a big deal of it. He’s probably toeing the party line but it was interesting nonetheless.

What a patronising remark. You might not rate Mascherano much but lots of people (including our manager) do. You are entitled to your own opinion of course but to go round and say that anyone who doesn’t see it your way are unable to make a judgement is b******s. This Ad hominem fallacy makes rational debate impossible.

II'm not saying whether it’s correct or not but I remember Mourinho making even stronger comments about Carvalho. Something about there being "something wrong with his head" after Carvalho was moaning to the press about his lack of playing time. If Rafa made that comment about any of his players he’d be slaughtered and critised. In Mourinho’s case if I recall the reception from the media and pundits were generally positive with some people even praising his man management skills.

Even if we win it'll be inspite of Rafa not because of him. Either that or we were just lucky.