Ronnie#5

Nothing this big is ever straightforward Neil but it's still easy enough to grasp the concept of the totality of the issue: FSG aren't that bothered about Liverpool FC. Like you, there's no doubt in my opinion that this is an FSG issue as opposed to a JWH issue. And I don't doubt Henry would like to see us succeed for, as we saw with Suarez, when he gets involved s*** just gets done. The issue is that he's obviously smart enough to figure this out himself so therefore, if he's so committed to LFC why isn't he more hands on? All jokes aside it's a disgrace that he let nearly 2 years go by without taking in a game at Anfield. It's the optics of it all. he has a private jet. Leave Boston at 8pm on a friday evening and arrive, with a nights sleep, in Liverpool at 8am Saturday morning. FFS there's 5k fans a fortnight going to far greater lengths to support the team coming from Ireland/Scandanavia etc not to mention the effort the away support have to put in to get to the likes of Bournemouth for a poxy lunchtime kick-off. And anyway, he's got his right hand man running the Red Sox so surely they don't need his day to day attention. Maybe its corporate politics but it's not helping our club and thats all I give a bollix about. yeah I read about that! Real are getting $39m (£24m) from Emirates Airlines from next season so maybe thats a better barometer and Barca get $44m (£27m) from Qatar Airways.

You want my 2 cents on the future of sports ownership? ... Chevrolet agreed to pay £360m over 9 years to sponsor the shirt. That's £40m a year. At some point the money guys at these companies are just going to start advocating that it makes more sense to buy the clubs and turn them into brand billboards. Red Bull are trying it in a very crass way and I've no idea how successfully but they did it in small markets so maybe not the best model. But football is increasingly becoming a commercial rather than sporting activity and this is possibly the next step. BTW: no matter which valuation you choose, Chevrolret could've bought and sub'd LFC for the past 3 years with that level of investment. Makes ya think.

yeah forgot we did actually go down this road before.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_a_corporate_fixer?#slide=1

Not the one I was referring to. The loan you speak of in the last accounts here My link clearly states that the £46.8m loan from UKSV to the club was used to repay the £37.8m stadium loan facility with £9m used against the ongoing credit facility.

I missed this earlier: Our commercial capability vs Asrenal means we cna prob more than make up for the difference in matchday income, especially if we are a CL team. As for Utd, Barca, Real & Munuch.. who's saying you need to be the 'richest'?? We just need to be 'in the conversation' along the same lines as their Red Sox who are behind the Yankees & the Dodgers in terms of income/expenditure but not that far behind.

Not that soon.They'll get the stadium sorted then put us on the market or they'll keep us ticking along nicely a la Aston Villa or a less hostile version of Mike Ashley The delay on their end about the ground (and I'm happy to admit I'm completely guessing here) is probably due to a disagreement among the partners in FSG about the route to take with LFC. I'm sure some are just saying 'not a penny more' whereas Henry is probably pushing the 'lets just get the ground redeveloped' . Half arsed mandate means half arsed action. If they really wanted the ground sorted, they'd hire the best 'fixer' they could find, give them a sizable budget and a month in Liverpool to do a deal with the homeowners to remove the objections.

The most common figure quoted was £300m but it was nearly always prefaced as 'the deal values the club for £300m" which means f*** all if they cut a deal with RBS on their end of the debt. As far as I can recall, they paid £186m cash and absorbed £80m in debt servicing commitments. So £266 + interest.

There's been boatloads of mistakes but every club has them. How much is enough.... How much do you think they've spent? LFChistory have the net spend under FSG at £85.2m. That's £12m per window. Is this really something to be trumpeted? They bought us in a fire sale for a song. I said that from the get go. The least I expected was a serious level of investment along the same lines as what they pumped into the Red Sox to make them competitive. It hasn't happened. An emirate spends £40-£50m a window over their 1st 3 years. I'm not looking for that. I just want to see us prepared to attract the type of talent required to 1st qualify for the CL and then use those revenues to pay the wages of the caliber of player to win the league. This team, under the guidance of Rodgers and the brilliance of Suarez are on the cusp. They just needed a helping hand. An investment. And yet these boys kept their hands in their pockets this window (and the last) because they know 'value' better than the actual market does. You moaned at me having a pop over how crap their 'value' strategy was. This was pre the last window. I predicted it would screw us over. You told me to effectively to stop making up stories. Yet here we are. No incomings. Lots of excuses (mistakes in your langauage) but no new full back. No central midfielder and no attacking midfielder. You're also ignoring my point about the investment potential in the club which this crew are harnessing off the field brilliantly but only on the basis of fattening up the balance sheet. Not for investment in the playing squad. You say they're subbing the club. I'm sure there were some legitmate loans but last years loss was almost soley down to them absorbing the stadium costs of H&G all in one year. That was tax play and you know it so don't peddle that one. The accounts are out in March so we'll have our chat about wages then. I'm not looking for an emirate. I'm looking for a serious investor. These boys are obviously in the buy it, fix it, flip it business. There's nothing we can do about that obliviously and it's better than being Leeds but I'm f***ed if I'm just going to accept the propaganda bulls*** from this shower of spoofers about their intentions for our club.

We don't need an Emirate. Did you read my earlier post on this?

That's it for me. But, whilst I'm not against what owenthomas is suggesting, I don't think we need to go to the extreme's of sugar daddy levels. We just initial investment on a fairly large scale - both structurally in terms of the stadium and on the playing staff. The payback is in naming rights, corporate revenue and increased matchday income. This is supplemented by the new TV deals, which are huge. I think we'd have earned £50m (including the Premier League) from TV had we made the CL last year whereas we'll make close to £110m in season 2015-16 when the new BT deal kicks in. That's aside from the corresponding increases in commercial revenue (no way in hell Arsenal should be earning more from shirt deals than Liverpool) Have a look at the figs in the latest Deloitte report. We're £30m off Chelsea in matchday income and £50m in TV income. The majority of that can be put down to them winning the CL in 2012 and their extortionate ticket prices as their ground is smaller than ours. We bring in €50m a year more than Arsenal in Commercial income. That's with them having CL football. The figures will change but the differential won't if we crack the top 4. Lets put this into perspective: Our commercial revenue in 2012-13 was the 5th highest in Europe. (I'm discounting the fluffy numbers at City & PSG). That's astonishing considering we weren't in the CL and were languishing in 7th/8th in the league. The potential in this club is enormous. We're far closer to Utd 'off the pitch' than we were 4 years ago and the credit for that goes entirely to FSG. But there's still so much potential there. We're at roughly 66% of their revenue and thats without CL football. Bring in CL football on a consistent basis and we'd be above Chelsea, City & Arsenal in the turnover stakes. We're already ahead of them commercially. The TV money should be fairly even so the only difference will be matchday but I think a new stand with extra corporates will be more than enough to help us out in that regard as the 'brand' (and therefore the commercial team) needs the ordinary fan to be able to go the game. This is why I rage at FSG cos I thought they are professional sports investors and I'd hoped they'd invest accordingly in LFC. I'm not going to suggest that they're not investing. They are. Just no where near enough to realise our potential. I've no problem running our club like a business, thats perfectly reasonable. However, the best business, the best businessmen, invest when they see an opportunity. These boys lost their bottle very early into their tenure and they're now very obviously committed to allowing the club run itself as long as it doesn't require any major investment on their behalf. Which is a massive pain in the hole cos (thanks to their brilliance on the commercial deals) means we're not that far away. As Dus said, we just need someone to get us over that hump.

That's it for me

Funny but true.

Who here is saying they're the devil?! I see useless, incompetent, not arsed, tight, but not one post saying they're the devil. They're not the devil. They're far from it. But they're not arsed about our club. They're bulls*** merchants who took one shot, said f*** that then couldn't believe their luck when the TV deals started rolling in. They're much better than this and hence my frustration. Their too smart to be this dumb.

Ha! Nah that's just called a business plan.

Exactly. FFP is the bogeyman for FSG. It's win win for them. Comply and qualify, great. Comply & don't qualify, no big deal cos we just want to make the club as attractive as possible so that we can flip it in 2-3 yrs time.

You'll get there soon enough Dan.

Preach brother. They're not arsed. And, like you, I believe the fact that Henry has only bothered his a*** to make it to 1 game at Anfield during Rodgers tenure is as clear an indication of this as you'll need to demonstrate their not arsed-ness. f***'em

This crew are too smart to be this dumb.

you're wasted in this thread mate. RBM is looking for a pal like you in the transfer thread.

harsh but true!

I think you might be picking me up wrong here RP: Pt 2: anyone who genuinely thinks that is a bit silly. And that's being nice. It's obvious they want us to be successful, they're just not prepared to do what's required to get us there. Pt 3: I'm all for commercial deals. In fact, it's the one area I can say FSG have been top class. We can have 100 donuts dancing on the Kop for a photo for all I care. My point was that the club ballsed up the optics of both commercial deals this week, particularly the Garuda deal. The PC to announce it was dominated by Q's about the competency of the club to close deals. They effectively ballsed up the launch and irritated the living crap out if their own fan base whilst doing so. Well done Mr Ayre

It was but it wasn't a description of our owners. These guys are great businessmen but they're also very successful sports investors. They didn't get the Red Sox to where they are today by being too timid and controlled. They did their due diligence . They invested. They hired the best Execs available and then they re-invested. I'm not letting them off the hook with the 'they're learning' line. Not when they've been here for 3.5 years. Not to mention that they can sack Kenny but leave a t** like Ayre still at the table.

Cheers mate. That might be the 1st time someone's called me reasonable on this place As for your points, I'm delighted we found common ground on the # horlicks!