Tyler

horses for courses

Lippi?

in fairness you are probably right. i'm just sick of seeing us create nothing for 75 minutes and then pepper the opposition goal for 15 minutes and run out of time

could be morse code next week rafa seems to believe in the cult of the manager many managers do players win games, not tactics obv set us up to defend from set pieces and work on defending as a unit but f*** patterns of play when we have the ball just get them to get the ball on the grass and pass it to a red shirt and move

we're not losing games drawing them seems we're on the leash/players inhibited goals a problem do we go 3 at the back carra agger skyrtel masch in front of them gerrard benayoun riise/aurelio babel torres kewell i would love to see us go and play the way we play in last ten minutes when chasing a game

are we getting any money for anfield or is that going to the local council in return for the new site liverpool was sold for 250m or so united cost three times that it seems that the new owners of football clubs are banking on selling individual matches in the future not sure how else the numbers add up long term

EBITA of 79m We are told interest payments are approx 62m a year Depreciation and amortisation is in region of 25m a year Free cash flow is less than 5 true value of a business is ability to generate cash and not profits

their ebitda of 79m is short of the target of 89m and well short of where they expect to be in 2008 - 108m

I am not precisely sure of the debt/equity mix as the glazers refinanced some of the monies this year but effectively there are financial targets and milestones built into the financing documents if these are not reached then financiers have certain rights which kick in - these range from taking control of the club to veotes on certain spending which would include transfer spending

don't think so may affect transfer budgets though

also compare against forecast ebitda of 89m for 2007 and 107m in 2008 from when they took over if these numbers are not achieved then hedge funds have certain rights which kick in

its got to the stage where we may have a player in our first team who was not born last time we won the title ever feel old?

nope - figures are not made up not sure how its blinkered my point was that there is a popular misconceptio that united were hugely successful in commercialising their merchandising and they weren't really successful secondly, most analysts believe (on any valuation model) that the glazers overpaid for united by about 250m - they paid approx 790m for it operating profit or EBITDA which will be the headline figure tomorrow won't take account of interest which is approx 45m a year maybe clubs are being bought with an eye to potentially being able to sell each game on tv or over internet but other than that difficult to see how united's income will grow by 80% as per glazer business plan they'll prob post profits in region of 75m but this will be before in interest, depreciation and amortisation so real profit closer to approx 5m

no. united's sponsorship deal with nike also included united selling rights to merchandise to nike united only made 2m profit on 21m turnover from merchandise witness the various man united superstores worldwide that opened then closed sometimes we hammer our club for not doing better but there is a misconception that united's merchandise and branding was a big success fact is it wasn't if profits tomorrow as announced are less than 40-45m then united or more importantly glazers are actually losing money on the deal

their annual accounts are released tomorrow interesting to see their operating profit whatever it is it won't include the interest payments which are roughly 42m per annum will the press mention this when analysing the numbers or just point to a great headline profit which doesn't tell the real story for those of us who give out about merchandising and our failure to cash in on the liverpool brand, united also failed with this and flogged their brand to nike three or four years ago at its peak it was a 20m business for them

Marseille reject City's Cisse bid Tuesday, January 8, 2008 Marseille have rejected an approach from Manchester City for striker Djibril Cisse. The former Liverpool forward has been linked with a return to the Premier League in the January transfer window after failing to secure a regular starting role with the French club this season. Marseille president Pape Diouf revealed today that City had inquired about the services of Cisse but he had turned them down. "He is wanted, that is for sure," said Diouf. "I myself have been approached by Manchester City (about Cisse) but I turned it down categorically." Cisse has been forced to play second fiddle to Mamadou Niang up front for the French side this campaign and has scored just two goals in Ligue 1. But with Senegal forward Niang having left for the African Nations Cup, Cisse - who was on loan at Marseille last season - is set for an extended spell in the first team. Diouf insists the 26-year-old is going nowhere. "I want to be clear - Djibril Cisse will not leave. He will stay at OM until the end of the season," he added. "I have always wanted to rediscover the Djibril that we signed, the efficient Djibril. "I have never doubted his abilities, his qualities. He got through difficulties last year and I have no doubt that he will get out of them again this season. "With everything that he has had to endure, read, see and hear, I understand that it piles the pressure on him to leave, having been contacted by an English club that is among the leading teams in their league. "But when he and myself discussed this, he understood my position — he understood that I will not let him leave and he has no problem with me." City refused to give any credence to Diouf's claims, with a spokesman saying: "We don't comment on transfer speculation." Despite what Diouf has said the French club are rumoured to be keen to offload Cisse and his availability has been made known to numerous top clubs around Europe. However, the player is believed to be keen to return to England - where he still has a house in the north west - and he has been linked with Bolton as a possible successor to fellow Frenchman Nicolas Anelka, who seems increasingly likely to join Chelsea after the Stamford Bridge side had a £12million bid rejected yesterday.

Wham bam, thank you, Sam: It's time for Method Man to go N o More Bulls***. That is the all-encompassing resolution this column has embraced for 2008. It was, of course, Norman Mailer's unsuccessful slogan when he attempted to become mayor of New York back in 1970 with Jimmy Breslin as his sidekick. Mailer failed but only at the ballot box. Americans, apparently, don't like politicians whose message is one of fear or even loathing. They love our old friend Hope. They can hear endless talk of a new frontier. Mailer told them it was all bulls*** and they didn't want to know. My resolution will be characteristically unsuccessful, but it is time to make a start. It is time for Sam Allardyce to be sacked. There is much talk out there that says Allardyce needs time. In fact, he has had too much time. During his few months at Newcastle, he has demonstrated that he is, like many hard men, far too sensitive for a big job. But what, goes out the cry, of his fabled 'methods'? These, it is said, 'do not work overnight'. Discussing Sam's 'methods' as they do makes him sound like a Swiss child psychiatrist with proven, if idiosyncratic, ways of treating ADD. He could be a scientist, perhaps one of the men working on the lifelong research project into the human genome rather than a football manager who has to figure out how to get Nicky Butt to play. Not that Sam wants him, or any of the others, to play too much. That is how Sam likes it, he has a staff of 32 at Newcastle and they are all fuelled by his talk, by the promise of a dividend to his methods some time in the future. At Newcastle, Sam works out of an office called the War Room. It is, of course, first-class bulls*** as well as perhaps not the best term for a club with Joey Barton on the payroll. Some of the players have spotted it too, reportedly asking at the end of one long briefing session, "But what do you want us to do when we've got the ball?" Sam's flimflam disguises this essential truth, as all bulls*** does. Neither he nor his 32 staff has an answer to that fundamental question, unless "get rid of it" qualifies as a valid response. It certainly did at Bolton where Sam's time is now viewed as a great success and another reason for him to stay at Newcastle. Sam never won anything at Bolton despite reaching a League Cup final in which Steve McClaren was the opposing manager. But there were no expectations, no belief that, at the very least, a team should try and do something with the ball, nobody hollering, "What do you want us to do when we've got the ball?" Sam can't answer that one. There is one persuasive argument for keeping Sam. There are some who will tell you that Sam has betrayed the traditions of Newcastle United with his style of play. It is time for Alan Shearer, they say. By all means, give Shearer the job. Nothing could be more entertaining than the man who described Steven Gerrard's performance against Croatia as a bad day at the office being asked to produce a purposeful football team. But it is not a reason for sacking Sam. Sam knows that the talk of the Newcastle style is more bulls***, even if it conflicts with his own quality s***. The Newcastle fans believe it, have been fed this stuff and believe it is their right to play with style. Shearer may, indeed, be the man to acquaint them with reality. * * * * * One of the Liverpool fans on the phone-ins last Wednesday night ended his increasingly hysterical rant against Rafael Benitez by demanding that Allardyce be given the Liverpool job. Who manages Liverpool is an increasingly irrelevant point. Who governs the club is what matters now, especially as the new owners seem to have been as affected by the sub-prime credit crunch as a paper mill worker living in a trailer in Wisconsin. The danger for Liverpool is that this story is portrayed as a conventional tale in which an owner loses faith with a manager and refuses him any more money as happened with Abramovich and Mourinho. Hicks and Gillett may have lost faith with Benitez, but, crucially, there is no evidence that they have any money to give any manager (or even to Luton). Now that Liverpool are temporarily outside the top four, it would be no surprise to hear that the owners will wait until Champions League qualification is assured before spending again. When they bought the club last February, Hicks and Gillett made great play of the fact that they were not saddling Liverpool with debt. You don't hear so much from them now, perhaps because that is what they are about to do. Gillett insists that, in business, "debt can be your friend", but you'd expect a very happy ending from a half a billion pound buddy. This week, Liverpool expect to finalise, once more, plans for their stadium. Hicks and Gillett haven't been able to come through with their big promises in that regard either, talking things up, wowing the fans with models and designs, but essentially just feeding bulls*** into a system already overloaded with horsecrap. Liverpool were booed on Wednesday and Benitez is, once again, under pressure, but the manager who has reached two Champions League finals with Djimi Traore and Bolo Zenden deserves better. Gillett and Hicks don't. The man on the phone-in was right. They deserve Sam Allardyce. dionfanning@gmail.com

hardly hysterical just asking for a view on it we are not in the david moores era now. new owners usually spells new manager (ferguson apart) if we don't get results in next couple of games, chequebook may stay closed and rafa moved on a champions league run/win may spare him but at this stage we are close to where we were with houllier four years ago - lack of faith by the supporters combine that with a recent spat with the owners and rafa being moved on is not unrealistic point is when will enough be enough or do we have faith that with proper backing he can turn things around and win the league

show me a good loser and i'll show you a loser

lippi

Anybody think Rafa will get the sack or will he survive to end of the season? Seems like we have gone back 4 years to the end of the Houllier season where it became inevitable he would go. If he is to go, seems better he goes now and doesn't limp to end of the season. get marcello lippi in

too many players who don't have the right mentality manager has to take blame for that need to be able to beat teams like wigan especially when we go one up scrap for fourth place is on now all we can hope is that arsenal stop united from closing in on our record

mentality of the players seems to be wrong maybe hicks was right - we don't have any swagger one nil up against wigan we should go on and hammer them

I still rate him has one of the best "football" brains in the team he can and will do a job for us criticism of players on here is getting a bit ridiculous some players are always criticised - riise, kuyt some players are above criticism - carragher, gerrard same people who said rafa had lost it a few weeks ago when he took off gerrard were calling for gerrard to be taken off yesterday this management lark is easy

i think we will catch them up important not to lose ground after christmas i'd like to see us in contention come march and then see what happens we played well today they didn't have a shot dunne played out of his skin cheeky bid?