The Way Forward Thread

[Guest Snorky]

Had enough of the depressing posts since Athens, and not one of them talks about the game. I do think the club has reached a crossroads both on and off the field, we cannot do anything about the 'on' side of things, but I am sure we could come up with some decent ideas for the 'off' side of things.

 

It cannot be altered over night it will take time but I'd like to see something along these lines:

 

Season Ticket Holders

 

It's well known that season tickets do swap hands for the odd game, even the odd season.

 

I would like to see a system where the S/T holder can sell on his ticket officially through the club by either calling them or emailing them to say that they cannot make a particular game.

 

I would also like each and every S/T holder to be able to give the club a list of 5 names that could use this ticket should the owner find he cannot go.

 

This would mean that the seat will not remain empty and the S/T holder will get some money back or monitary credit put on his account to be used later in the season.

 

Fan Cards

 

 

Every Liverpool supporter who wants to attend a game at Anfield must have a fan card. No fan card = No entry.

 

'Tickets' can be bought at any outlet capable of electronic transfers. Shops, banks etc. This would rule out the need to phone for hours or press F5 for hours on the internet.

 

Just because you have bought a 'ticket' does not give you automatic credit, you must actually attend the game and swipe your card to get the credit.

 

ALL SEASON TICKETS & FAN CARDS are open to random checks, and if the person cannot prove that the S/T or F/C is not theirs or is not allowed to use then the fan is allowed to stay but the S/T or F/C is confiscated.

 

AWAY GAMES

 

To be honest, I think the system in place is pretty fair(ish), although it does not allow people with low credit or non at all to go up the ladder. Maybe set aside a percentage of tickets for the low credit holders the chance.

 

ARRANGEMENTS FOR FINALS ETC

 

Loyalty is a must here, if you've gone to every single game home or away then bollix, you deserve not only a ticket but to be driven there by the club.

 

Any fan, S/T or F/C holder that has attended every home game must have first chance. With the S/T holders given first option.

 

Now this is where it gets complicated but I think fairer. Remember I mentioned that you could re-sell your ticket or pass it on to a list of 5 names, well if you do this then you do not get that credit added on to your total.

 

For eg.

 

If we have played 30 games at Anfield, then every S/T holder who actually attended all those games in person should be guarenteed a ticket. Next would be all those F/C holders who actually attended all those games in person.

 

Should there be tickets left after this then:

 

S/T holders who attended 25 - 29 games in person.

F/C holders who attended 25- 29 games in person.

 

Any left then:

 

20 - 24 games and so on.

Edited May 28, 2007 by Snorky

[Cam]

Season Ticket Holders

 

It's well known that season tickets do swap hands for the odd game, even the odd season.

Every few summers they must show a passport or drivers licence when renewing, that way the club knows who is in the ground and can more easily identify trouble-makers. Perhaps do it for one or two matches during a season too.

 

But for the first summer there should be an amnesty. Those who have STs from long-dead grandparents can 'fess up and not lose their ST.

 

Then... I don't know. Perhaps allow them to be passed on only in the event of death, providing full details of the new holder are provided and no profit is made.

[Christine]

Quick question: as a season ticket holder how would you know if I actually attended one game or ten games? I wouldn?t use the club to re-issue my ticket, I?d sort it myself and keep full points, and I reckon that would be the same for the majority of people.

 

I like the credit card idea though, that would have potential for both season ticket and fan card holders.

 

Are you suggesting cross competition loyalty?

 

 

But for the first summer there should be an amnesty. Those who have STs from long-dead grandparents can 'fess up and not lose their ST.

 

It?s never publicised but there is an unofficial amnesty already on the go, we changed two only last season, no problems at all.

[Will]

ARRANGEMENTS FOR FINALS ETC

Any fan, S/T or F/C holder that has attended every home game must have first chance. With the S/T holders given first option.

Any fan that has attended every away game should have first chance for finals, IMO, as this is in fact another away game

 

The 5 names thing sounds interesting, but I don't think is remotely realistic and far too much hassle to organise - don't see why it is needed if you can do the "sell unwanted tickets" on your ST as Chelsea and the Mancs have been doing recently

[Chili Palmer]

Had enough of the depressing posts since Athens, and not one of them talks about the game. I do think the club has reached a crossroads both on and off the field, we cannot do anything about the 'on' side of things, but I am sure we could come up with some decent ideas for the 'off' side of things.

 

It cannot be altered over night it will take time but I'd like to see something along these lines:

 

Season Ticket Holders

 

It's well known that season tickets do swap hands for the odd game, even the odd season.

 

I would like to see a system where the S/T holder can sell on his ticket officially through the club by either calling them or emailing them to say that they cannot make a particular game.

 

I would also like each and every S/T holder to be able to give the club a list of 5 names that could use this ticket should the owner find he cannot go.

 

This would mean that the seat will not remain empty and the S/T holder will get some money back or monitary credit put on his account to be used later in the season.

 

Fan Cards

Every Liverpool supporter who wants to attend a game at Anfield must have a fan card. No fan card = No entry.

 

'Tickets' can be bought at any outlet capable of electronic transfers. Shops, banks etc. This would rule out the need to phone for hours or press F5 for hours on the internet.

 

Just because you have bought a 'ticket' does not give you automatic credit, you must actually attend the game and swipe your card to get the credit.

 

ALL SEASON TICKETS & FAN CARDS are open to random checks, and if the person cannot prove that the S/T or F/C is not theirs or is not allowed to use then the fan is allowed to stay but the S/T or F/C is confiscated.

 

AWAY GAMES

 

To be honest, I think the system in place is pretty fair(ish), although it does not allow people with low credit or non at all to go up the ladder. Maybe set aside a percentage of tickets for the low credit holders the chance.

 

ARRANGEMENTS FOR FINALS ETC

 

Loyalty is a must here, if you've gone to every single game home or away then bollix, you deserve not only a ticket but to be driven there by the club.

 

Any fan, S/T or F/C holder that has attended every home game must have first chance. With the S/T holders given first option.

 

Now this is where it gets complicated but I think fairer. Remember I mentioned that you could re-sell your ticket or pass it on to a list of 5 names, well if you do this then you do not get that credit added on to your total.

 

For eg.

 

If we have played 30 games at Anfield, then every S/T holder who actually attended all those games in person should be guarenteed a ticket. Next would be all those F/C holders who actually attended all those games in person.

 

Should there be tickets left after this then:

 

S/T holders who attended 25 - 29 games in person.

F/C holders who attended 25- 29 games in person.

 

Any left then:

 

20 - 24 games and so on.

 

I agree with most of it Kev, but the same problem will raise its ugly head if we get to a final and our ticket allocation is less than say 30,000, the chances are that there will be more than that meeting the first criteria,. what would you do then?

[Guest Snorky]

Quick question: as a season ticket holder how would you know if I actually attended one game or ten games? I wouldn?t use the club to re-issue my ticket, I?d sort it myself and keep full points, and I reckon that would be the same for the majority of people.

 

If you never contacted the club to tell them that someone on your list of 5 names was using it, then you would still get the credit, although if your ticket was checked and it was found that it wasn't you, you would lose your S/T. It's a chance you take.

 

I like the credit card idea though, that would have potential for both season ticket and fan card holders.

 

Are you suggesting cross competition loyalty?

 

Yes definately, the more games you go to the better chance you should have.

 

It?s never publicised but there is an unofficial amnesty already on the go, we changed two only last season, no problems at all.

 

 

I agree with most of it Kev, but the same problem will raise its ugly head if we get to a final and our ticket allocation is less than say 30,000, the chances are that there will be more than that meeting the first criteria,. what would you do then?

 

Not every S/T holder goes to every home game. A lot do, but not everyone. Not all Fan Card holders get to every game, a lot do but not everyone.

 

As said in the post above, with S/T holders you take a chance. You either let the club know that someone on your list of 5 names is using it or you take a chance of getting the credit and not telling them, but you risk the chance of losing your S/T through random checks. Would it be worth the risk for one credit ?

[Cam]

It?s never publicised but there is an unofficial amnesty already on the go, we changed two only last season, no problems at all.

Ah, right. Good.

 

Snorks, what about the shareholders? Rightly or wrongly they're entitled to first dibs. They had the right when they owned the club and understandably negotiated a life-long allocation when selling to G&H.

 

There's no correct answer to the problem. But I think ST holders with a number of aways in that particular competition should be given priority. Then ST holders with a number of homes and then just all general ST holders. They front up £600 every summer to buy the players to get to the finals.

Edited May 28, 2007 by Cam

[Christine]

If you never contacted the club to tell them that someone on your list of 5 names was using it, then you would still get the credit, although if your ticket was checked and it was found that it wasn't you, you would lose your S/T. It's a chance you take.

 

Right I get ye, didn?t pick up on that bit.

 

Yes definitely, the more games you go to the better chance you should have.

 

Deffo agree with that, we don't support our club depending on competition we simply support. One of my main gripes with the final ticket allocation was fan card holders with 30+ games on their card had no advantage on fan card holders with just the six points. I know why they did this but it seems unfair to me.

[Guest Snorky]

Any fan that has attended every away game should have first chance for finals, IMO, as this is in fact another away game

 

The 5 names thing sounds interesting, but I don't think is remotely realistic and far too much hassle to organise - don't see why it is needed if you can do the "sell unwanted tickets" on your ST as Chelsea and the Mancs have been doing recently

 

I agree as well, but how would you police it. My whole scheme is based on actually turning up and not just buying and passing it on.

 

Ah, right. Good.

 

Snorks, what about the shareholders? Rightly or wrongly they're entitled to first dibs. They had the right when they owned the club and understandably negotiated a life-long allocation when selling to G&H.

 

There's no correct answer to the problem. But I think ST holders with a number of aways in that particular competition should be given priority. Then ST holders with a number of homes and then just all general ST holders. They front up £600 every summer to buy the players to get to the finals.

 

Shareholders who attend the game, and not just sit in some office somewhere will entitled. As I said to Will, my whole scheme is based on attendance and not just buying.

[Will]

Shareholders who attend the game, and not just sit in some office somewhere will entitled. As I said to Will, my whole scheme is based on attendance and not just buying.

Unfortunately that has no chance of succeeding as shareholders have a lifetime right to the same rights as before G&H came in - i.e. including guaranteed final tickets - regardless of what games they go to. And let's not forget they haven't (necessarily) paid £600 up front, they've paid £4-5,000 up front

[Tetti]

Add to it the opportunity for Fan card holders to get domestic aways on their own card as opposed to boosting the totals for a st holder and I would go with all that.

 

As I will never get a season ticket as it stands.

[Guest Snorky]

Unfortunately that has no chance of succeeding as shareholders have a lifetime right to the same rights as before G&H came in - i.e. including guaranteed final tickets - regardless of what games they go to. And let's not forget they haven't (necessarily) paid £600 up front, they've paid £4-5,000 up front

 

And they get dividends as a result of their investment.

 

One shareholder one ticket, not tickets per share like it is now.

 

Add to it the opportunity for Fan card holders to get domestic aways on their own card as opposed to boosting the totals for a st holder and I would go with all that.

 

 

Anything that rewards fans that actually go to the games I am all for. The away games would be harder to monitor/police though. The only way would be to give a credit for purchasing a ticket. Which would go against the main rule of my thoughts.

 

But, if all Premiership teams could pass on information from their turnstile computer system, then it can definately be taken into account.

[Will]

And they get dividends as a result of their investment.

 

One shareholder one ticket, not tickets per share like it is now.

What fecking dividends?????

 

I don't believe LFC has ever paid dividends to shareholders - I have certianly never received one

 

And it is one ticket per share unless you have 10+ shares (which can't be very many people)

 

Add to it the opportunity for Fan card holders to get domestic aways on their own card as opposed to boosting the totals for a st holder and I would go with all that.

Agreed on that point - when they go on general sale they should record your purchase and so eventually the tickets should go to fans with x away credits rather than STH with x credits

[Christine]

And it is one ticket per share unless you have 10+ shares (which can't be very many people)

 

One ticket per share and one ticket per share holder isn?t the same thing though is it?

[Tetti]

What fecking dividends?????

 

I don't believe LFC has ever paid dividends to shareholders - I have certianly never received one

 

And it is one ticket per share unless you have 10+ shares (which can't be very many people)

Agreed on that point - when they go on general sale they should record your purchase and so eventually the tickets should go to fans with x away credits rather than STH with x credits

 

One ticket per shareholding of one to 10 isn't it? and then rises on a sliding scale?

 

What was the threshold of shares to gain one, 2, 3 or 4 priority rights?

 

 

"The allocation and selling arrangements for ALL Priority Rights Holders are as follows,

 

On holding:

 

1 Priority Right ? 1 (one) ticket

2 Priority Rights ? 2 (two) tickets

3 Priority Rights ? 3 (three) tickets

4 Priority Rights ? 4 (four) tickets "

[Will]

One ticket per share and one ticket per share holder isn?t the same thing though is it?

Sorry, I meant to say it's one ticket per shareholder unless you have 10+ shares!

[Tetti]

Agreed on that point - when they go on general sale they should record your purchase and so eventually the tickets should go to fans with x away credits rather than STH with x credits

 

But they rarely do go to general, so unless they funnel off some for fan card holders each time, we find it almost impossible to get on the ladder.

[Christine]

Sorry, I meant to say it's one ticket per shareholder unless you have 10+ shares!

 

Well get it right next time

 

I only found out this week that a fan card holder can?t accumulate away points for the few tickets they?ve been able to get through general sale, that?s a disgrace.

[Will]

If all STs and fan cards had photos on them, then that would be the easiest way to ensure the people who bought the tickets (for home games anyway) went to the game themselves

 

Perhaps a system where you can link fan cards on the Online Ticket Sales so that if you have bought a ticket or have a ST and cannot make a particular game then you can transfer the rights to that game to another fan card (which assumes the technology can work and has the to still get around the issue of knowing which seat you are meant to be in - how will they do that with the electronic fan card entry next season? You will have to have some official piece of paper saying which seat you are supposed to be in, presumably), then the credit goes either solely to the person going the game, or there is some kind of split with the original owner

 

Cross-competition loyalty with sliding scale of credits (I think teams like City have something like that) would work - but will that counter the reason the single-competition loyalty was set up - to encourage greater attendance at the early rounds of competitions?

 

I only found out this week that a fan card holder can?t accumulate away points for the few tickets they?ve been able to get through general sale, that?s a disgrace.

Agreed - a simple step to introduce

[Christine]

But they rarely do go to general, so unless they funnel off some for fan card holders each time, we find it almost impossible to get on the ladder.

 

I agree that they very rarely go on general sale but if they funnel tickets off for fan card holders then they're simply restricting STH's who HAVE the loyalty points to accommodate FCH's that don't. If they went down that road then I guess they could funnel some off for everyone and let any fan take their chance regardless of what card they hold and to be honest what?s the point of a loyalty system then?

[Knox_Harrington]

Loads of sense in here. My thing would simply be to make all finals on both competition specific and then cross competition loyalty. So for what just happened have it be six European credits and 32 other games home and away gets a ticket, 6 credits and 31 doesn't. Season ticket holders are obviously at an advantage as they start on 19. But they can't be deemed to be any more orless loyal than a FC holder who goes to all 19 homes.

 

I'd make European aways not count for the competition loyalty. Do it all on home credits. European away credits count on the cross competition loyalty. Harsh, almost insanely so, but next season there will be a great many people, not only touts, going for tickets for European aways that they will never use. Some may try and shift them on but then the club is in a situation where it has no idea who is in what seat. Remove the significance and you may begin to sort that out.

 

As mentioned in the other thread, the other options until the more hi-tech options can be actually fairly implemented is a return to stubs. There will always be touting but the days of buying 100 fancards and then shifting on will be over if said tout has to have 100 stubs to qualify for the next game.

[Will]

Season ticket holders are obviously at an advantage as they start on 19. But they can't be deemed to be any more orless loyal than a FC holder who goes to all 19 homes.

Agree entirely with that second point - they don't pay the money up front but they have the pain in the a*** effort of getting all 19 and have to pay more

 

I'd make European aways not count for the competition loyalty. Do it all on home credits. European away credits count on the cross competition loyalty. Harsh, almost insanely so, but next season there will be a great many people, not only touts, going for tickets for European aways that they will never use. Some may try and shift them on but then the club is in a situation where it has no idea who is in what seat. Remove the significance and you may begin to sort that out.

Ridiculous suggestion. If you go to all Euro aways I think you should be guaranteed a Final ticket if we get there, regardless of what you do with home games. The solution is to make it harder to just buy for loyalty rather than if you go the match

 

Make people send in their flight details after/before the event to prove people went - or Hally's pick-them-up-over-there suggestion. But if you go the aways, you deserve to go to a Final

[Christine]

But if you go the aways, you deserve to go to a Final

 

Why?

[Tetti]

I only found out this week that a fan card holder can?t accumulate away points for the few tickets they?ve been able to get through general sale, that?s a disgrace.

 

Correct, we don't. Unless its for cup games.

[Knox_Harrington]

Ridiculous suggestion. If you go to all Euro aways I think you should be guaranteed a Final ticket if we get there, regardless of what you do with home games. The solution is to make it harder to just buy for loyalty rather than if you go the match

 

Make people send in their flight details after/before the event to prove people went - or Hally's pick-them-up-over-there suggestion. But if you go the aways, you deserve to go to a Final

Then next season will be a dream for touts and a nightmare for those who genuinely want to go. I know I'll be trying for one for the first away qualifier whether I can afford a plane or not. I'll camp out to get it. Then I'll definitely get one for the first away group game. I might well get one more for the group stage and keep buying my homes and should we make Moscow, well, I'm on eight.

 

Hally's pick them up over there suggestion may be worth looking at but I can't see this football club doing that.

 

Ridiculous suggestion. If you go to all Euro aways I think you should be guaranteed a Final ticket if we get there, regardless of what you do with home games. The solution is to make it harder to just buy for loyalty rather than if you go the match

 

Make people send in their flight details after/before the event to prove people went - or Hally's pick-them-up-over-there suggestion. But if you go the aways, you deserve to go to a Final

Could a return to stubs keep the away touting under control?