The need for 2 right midfielders

[RedNik]

Why are so many posters here advocating the signing of 2 right mids, namely being Alves AND Pennant. Others being mentioned are Joaquin and the perennial Steed Malbranque. I dont believe we could accomodate 2 mids, of this suggested stature, to play in 1 position. Here is my thinking:

 

Momo should start. Xabi and Stevie G must and will start. Thats 3 central midfielders, the solution to which Rafa found being placing our captain on the right. He was as usual excellent in this position, perhaps not as good as in the centre as I believe we missed out on his passing range from deep which complements Xabi wonderfully.

 

Rafa has also been praising the work of Mark Gonzalez in Sociedad and has suggested that he will be a huge hit at Anfield. Prior to this, he was singing praises of Harry Kewell too. I would assume that one of the two will get the start, and Kewell remains at the club (which I believe he will), he will battle for that spot with Gonzalez. Others for the position will be Riise and Bolo Zenden. Aurelio can even be played there.

 

Consequently, the 3 other midfielders used would have to be Momo, Xabi and Gerrard - presumably with Gerrard on the right, in that semi free role. Other back ups right now in the squad for the right mid position would be Luis Garcia of course, and possibly Harry Kewell, in his 'preferred position'. We could also play Finnan or Krompkamp (if he's still here...) there, depending on who plays at right back.

 

How then can we possibly accomodate both pennant and Alves, or any combination of 2 extra right midfielders? Why would we even need to blow near 15 million pounds to buy 2 midfielders for a position where we might already have a starter? I can completely understand why we would want to buy 1 of them, because we need width on the right, and a naturally right sided player at that too. We have been searching for a right mid for years now, and haven't been able to find a decent solution for it yet.

 

There are only 2 situations in which i can see us either getting 1 right mid who would command a starting place, or getting 2 right mids.

 

1) Gerrard is not happy with playing on the right, and wants to and will be used in the centre. I have no idea as to whether this is true, perhaps Elisha has or can provide some light on this issue.

 

2) Rafa plans on playing a 4-5-1 system similar to that which he employed so effectively in Valencia. This would explain why he wants 2 wingers, like he did at Valencia, in Vicente and Rufete.

 

In this case of course Gerrard would be on a free role in the centre and we would have a natural winger, probably Alves playing on the right. Rafa would consider getting a back up for Alves too, in Pennant, if the fee isnt too steep. We could actually still cope without this backup, because of luis and Kewell providing effective play from the position. A question that comes up with me is, what will happen with Luis next year? He's clearly not going to get in on the left or the centre, and if we are buying 2 right mids, surely his play will be very minimal?

 

Additionally, if Rafa plans on playing a 4-5-1, we can be sure that he is going all out for a striker like Kujt or Torres. Crouch imo isn't good enough to be our first choice and isn't a good enough footballer to play up front alone. I don't think he will make enough use of his chances and he probably isnt strong enough to be that isolated from the rest of the team. It also means that we probably wouldnt pay a huge amount for someone like Defoe because he could only be used in a different system, which according to the above assumptions would not be Rafa's first choice.

 

Thoughts?

[Knox_Harrington]

Good post but part of Alves signing may well mean Kronkamp goes. Alves covers both positions while Barragan comes through. Pennant as well as Alves seems likely as he should be cheap and has top division experience in England - we know exactly what we're getting. It's also the difference between a right mid and a right winger. He may want both options.

 

I think that as far as Rafa's concerned he wants twenty workers, twenty members of the squad that can all offer something different and each pull a decent amount of weight. He'll want to be able to play 4231, 442 and 352 at will and therefore the pair are likely. I wouldn't be surprised if Rafa has concluded that 4231 is more likely to be successful in Europe but 442 is required to break most sides down at home and all bar the top six away if we're honest. He also wants his formations to be fluid on the pitch as well as the training ground.

 

The Momo/Gerrard/Alonso question keeps being asked but let's not forget that if England do alright at the World Cup Gerrard has played a s*** load of football over the last two years. In Momo Rafa has a player who can take the weight off Gerrard, especially if those quality right midfielders are signed. I still don't think Stevie quite has the guile to play off the front in the same way someone like Aimar or Riquelme have but would still be excellent in that position away in Europe. I also think that much of the Momo/Gerrard/Alonso talk relies upon us not getting an injury. It's hardly implausible to think that each of those three, playing in the engine room, could each get a knock which puts them out of action for a month. Suddenly we'd hardly look overstocked for options.

 

While it's becoming a bit of a cliche it is all about the possibilities and I genuinely believe that Rafa is the only manager to think so much about that in this league.

[Guest AndyM17]

Agree with much of what you say.

 

I'd like both Alves and Pennant. Feel that you need both for cover.

 

Just don't think the options of Kewell or Garcia wide right are good enough in that position.

 

Clearly need another quality striker, if as you say, we play with just one up front. Don't think Crouch has the qualities to play the lone role. I still prefer him as plan B and am very happy with him doing that or starting if/when Rafa plays with 2 strikers.

 

Interesting times ahead on the transfer front over the next few weeks, hopefully.

[Guest 7777]

Said this the other day, best midfielder in the world or not, if we move Gerrard back into the centre you upset the whole dynamic of the team. Leave him out wide in his free role and he creates havoc

 

Who do you drop - Xabi or Momo?

 

Or play 3 in the middle which pretty much means Crouch is up front on his own and Gerrard more in the Rooney role.

 

This works but only with two wingers who were prepared to defend as much as attack, it would be very similar to how Chelsea play with Dogbreath up front on his own

 

Maybe this is why Rafa is so adamant on getting Alves

[Rimbeux]

Agree with Knox, and think the idea is clear, it's a squad game. There's four competitions to win, many different teams to play, and the side will change alot. It shouldn't go unnoticed that we finished the last two seasons literally out on our feet in the final games, we need as much quality as possible.

[Guest fredo]

Why are so many posters here advocating the signing of 2 right mids, namely being Alves AND Pennant. Others being mentioned are Joaquin and the perennial Steed Malbranque. I dont believe we could accomodate 2 mids, of this suggested stature, to play in 1 position. Here is my thinking:

 

Momo should start. Xabi and Stevie G must and will start. Thats 3 central midfielders, the solution to which Rafa found being placing our captain on the right. He was as usual excellent in this position, perhaps not as good as in the centre as I believe we missed out on his passing range from deep which complements Xabi wonderfully.

 

Rafa has also been praising the work of Mark Gonzalez in Sociedad and has suggested that he will be a huge hit at Anfield. Prior to this, he was singing praises of Harry Kewell too. I would assume that one of the two will get the start, and Kewell remains at the club (which I believe he will), he will battle for that spot with Gonzalez. Others for the position will be Riise and Bolo Zenden. Aurelio can even be played there.

 

Consequently, the 3 other midfielders used would have to be Momo, Xabi and Gerrard - presumably with Gerrard on the right, in that semi free role. Other back ups right now in the squad for the right mid position would be Luis Garcia of course, and possibly Harry Kewell, in his 'preferred position'. We could also play Finnan or Krompkamp (if he's still here...) there, depending on who plays at right back.

 

How then can we possibly accomodate both pennant and Alves, or any combination of 2 extra right midfielders? Why would we even need to blow near 15 million pounds to buy 2 midfielders for a position where we might already have a starter? I can completely understand why we would want to buy 1 of them, because we need width on the right, and a naturally right sided player at that too. We have been searching for a right mid for years now, and haven't been able to find a decent solution for it yet.

 

There are only 2 situations in which i can see us either getting 1 right mid who would command a starting place, or getting 2 right mids.

 

1) Gerrard is not happy with playing on the right, and wants to and will be used in the centre. I have no idea as to whether this is true, perhaps Elisha has or can provide some light on this issue.

 

2) Rafa plans on playing a 4-5-1 system similar to that which he employed so effectively in Valencia. This would explain why he wants 2 wingers, like he did at Valencia, in Vicente and Rufete.

 

In this case of course Gerrard would be on a free role in the centre and we would have a natural winger, probably Alves playing on the right. Rafa would consider getting a back up for Alves too, in Pennant, if the fee isnt too steep. We could actually still cope without this backup, because of luis and Kewell providing effective play from the position. A question that comes up with me is, what will happen with Luis next year? He's clearly not going to get in on the left or the centre, and if we are buying 2 right mids, surely his play will be very minimal?

 

Additionally, if Rafa plans on playing a 4-5-1, we can be sure that he is going all out for a striker like Kujt or Torres. Crouch imo isn't good enough to be our first choice and isn't a good enough footballer to play up front alone. I don't think he will make enough use of his chances and he probably isnt strong enough to be that isolated from the rest of the team. It also means that we probably wouldnt pay a huge amount for someone like Defoe because he could only be used in a different system, which according to the above assumptions would not be Rafa's first choice.

 

Thoughts?

 

Alhaurin ?

[Knox_Harrington]

Agree with Knox, and think the idea is clear, it's a squad game. There's four competitions to win, many different teams to play, and the side will change alot. It shouldn't go unnoticed that we finished the last two seasons literally out on our feet in the final games, we need as much quality as possible.

Zenden's injury hit us hard last season. Lost a key cover player. That's just the one knock. We need to be able to stand three or four.

[Guest YKI]

Wouldn't be surprised if we got Kuyt and Alves. Kuyt gives us cover on the right and plays up front.

[RafaShanks]

Is Kromkamp still offski then?

[Rimbeux]

Wouldn't be surprised if we got Kuyt and Alves. Kuyt gives us cover on the right and plays up front.

 

Very good point

[RedNik]

Alhaurin ?

 

 

huh?

 

do people here think that pennant is going to then be happy with a role as backup?

is this the end of the road for Garcia - imo he is still useful around the squad, he is a good professional and is a big game/big goal player. will he be happy with a marginalized role though?

[fyds]

Is Kromkamp still offski then?

Don't think anyone's certain on that...but, unless it's just being diplomatic which is always possible I suppose, the things he's said on Dutch TV/Radio at the Holland Training Camp suggest he's not looking to move.

[RedNik]

I for one am completely fine with him staying.

 

Is it possible that its just our interest in Alves that is causing people to think that he is off? Could it be that Rafa sees Alves as a right mid really and not more of a utility player who can be used as a wingback too?

[abuusayd]

If we got Alves dont be surprised if Finnan was put on the bench at times.

 

I think he will keep The 3 CM's leaving Sissoko to cover any Alves runs from time to time.

 

As Vincente used to run from deep the same way.

[RedNik]

I understand what you're saying, but Momo is never restricted positionally and as aplayer isnt very disciplined in that respect. He loves to charge around, especially in the opposition half, trying to win the ball back. Its Xabi who really plays the holding role/defensive midfield position for us, and he'd have to cover for any of Alves' runs.

[Guest YKI]

I understand what you're saying, but Momo is never restricted positionally and as aplayer isnt very disciplined in that respect. He loves to charge around, especially in the opposition half, trying to win the ball back. Its Xabi who really plays the holding role/defensive midfield position for us, and he'd have to cover for any of Alves' runs.

 

 

I thought that when a fullback bombs up the field, the defence shift over to compensate his move. So, if Alves goes forward, the right sided centreback shifts across to the right, the left sided centre back shifts right and the leftback tucks in to become the left sided centre back, no?

[Guz]

I'm not sure how much we'll see of Momo, Xabi and Stevie all together. Certainly an interesting thought though. I dont think Momo would've played the number of games he did this season had we managed to tie up Simao or another right midfielder 12 months ago. But because he did so well it's difficult to take him out of the equation.

[RedNik]

Its not just that he did so well, WE as a team performed so well.

[Guest Peatcheo]

Id like just one right mid with possibly anderson being an understudy. The only issue would be if the right mid hit a big injury we surely could not count on anderson to play numerous premiership games, meaning stevie would spend a bit of time back on the right.

[tag]

Id like just one right mid with possibly anderson being an understudy. The only issue would be if the right mid hit a big injury we surely could not count on anderson to play numerous premiership games, meaning stevie would spend a bit of time back on the right.

 

You can't plan for these 'big injury' worries. If we get too many quality covers, there'll be disharmony in the squad, ala Chelsea.

 

FWIW, I think our transfer dealings will depend on who and how much we get on our players sold. But I agree with you in that we only NEED 1 first-team right midfielder as Kromkamp, Cisse, Garcia and even Gerrard can 'cover' that position.

 

1 right midfielder, 1 striker(if Cisse stays) plus Aurelio, Gonzalez, Paletta & an experienced GK(hopefully jerzy stays) and we're all set.

[fred milne]

I think Rafa's plan will be to effectively rotate the right back and right wing spot between 3 players. Say : Alves, Finnan and Pennant.

Swap Pennant for Malbranque and that looks about right to me.

 

Bring in a top-class striker to replace Cisse and I think we have the makings of a side that can compete for title - assuming the luck with injuries that any successful side must have.

[Guest Cardie]

Malbranque isn't a flying winger.

[fred milne]

Malbranque isn't a flying winger.

I know.

 

So?

[Stevie H]

Swap Pennant for Malbranque and that looks about right to me.

 

Bring in a top-class striker to replace Cisse and I think we have the makings of a side that can compete for title - assuming the luck with injuries that any successful side must have.

 

i'd definitely have malbranque ahead of pennant.

[Guest fredo]

huh?

 

do people here think that pennant is going to then be happy with a role as backup?

is this the end of the road for Garcia - imo he is still useful around the squad, he is a good professional and is a big game/big goal player. will he be happy with a marginalized role though?

 

Still living in Andalucia mate ? BigDaddy is missing you you know ?