Papasmurf

Listen, I'm not going to repeat this all day, so I'll keep it simple for you. If Heskey was available, forgetting past memories, would you argue that I was right to think you wouldn't be wrong in saying that anyone who thought he wasn't one of the best strikers in the league was fooling nobody?

Listen, if you dare to say Heskey, on his day at least, isn't one of the most difficult strikers in the premiership to deal with, I'd say you'd be wrong to think I was right to disagree with you.

Anyone who says Emile Heskey isn't one of the very best strikers in the premiership is kidding nobody.

I think I might have a problem. There's a question that I keep repeating to myself at the same time every year, and I can't put my finger on why. It's like this reoccurring dream, but it's real, and it always pops up at the same time each year. Why the f*** has someone just given Steve Mclaren a job? No. That's not it. Although a recurring question, it is one with a simple answer: Stupid chairmen. A more complex and pressing one to Liverpool fans must be: Why the huge difference between ourselves now, and towards the end of last season? Why the huge metamorphosis that occurs between May and August? What exactly happens, and is it really happening again? Surely it can't be....... The latter half of the season just gone saw us playing good balanced football. Many of the draws we stacked up were not a result of us being unimaginative or unable to string passing moves together, but rather our inability to finish teams off after creating lots of chances and outplaying them for large parts of the game. It wasn't so bad. A key player here or there and surely..... Sometimes the most basic factors are overlooked in debates such as these, and this one in particular is arguably what the whole debate circles on: The transformation that takes place between May and August. I believe it's something that can be explained by the process of understanding. But that doesn't explain everything. It's not simply a problem with the formation. If it was, surely we would have hit the ground running the very moment Rafa switched to a 4-2-3-1 last season, which didn't happen. We began to play well over time and could switch formations effortlessly. So, is the complexity of Rafa's instructions an issue? Does it take more time to adapt to what he wants us to do? Is it maybe a case that we are changing slowly every season into what Rafa ultimately wants us to be? Is our process of evolution, and inability to carry out large scale changes all at once, one which is having this effect on us? Maybe if Benitez had the funds to change things in just a year or two, we'd have been able to radicalise the Houllier ethos and we'd be playing the Benitez way from the start of every season. As it stands, maybe he's had to incorporate new philosophies based on the players at his disposal, and when new and better ones are added slowly, the new process has to knit together all over again. I personally am somewhat baffled. But I am sure about one thing: It goes far deeper than a change of formation, or the fact we need a winger. If this was an investigation, and the answer to the question of why we're so disjointed was "we need wingers", surely the first thing you'd do to validate the credibility of this argument would be to look at the end of last season when Kuyt was also on the right. Surely if this was the case our play would have looked narrow and stifled then too. You'd come up with more questions than answers. One of which would be: If we didn't have them towards the end of last season, why the good quality balanced football? It just doesn't make any sense at all. I am not for one minute saying we shouldn't be looking forr better wide players. I have wished the arrival of quality wingers long before it became a cliche attached to us by everyone and his mate. You can go back to the days of .tv. The very first threads I started posting. When Morientes was being signed I said it then. My belief was, and is that a team with world class midfield and an average striker would provide more goals than one with a world class striker and an average midfield. I used man utd and andy cole as an example. I do think better wingers are needed. To be clear. But I do not think this explains our stuttering start. I don't think it explains every stuttering start to every season which eventually sees us playing some of the most effective football in Europe. Maybe THE most effective. We don't play like Arsenal. No team does. But we play with a high tempo, we spread the play very well, we have a shape, balance, organisation and a combination of defensive solidity and aggressive attacking which most teams find too much to deal with. What we lacked is the individual class to make the tactical advantage pay off. We absolutely battered Villa in the mirror fixture last season. Run them ragged. We did not look disjointed. We could pass, and pass well. Yes we needed better players. But our brand of football and our ability to play well and dominate teams was not compromised by this fact. Even though the results sometimes were. I also remember the thread about gelling. I remember how much scorn was poured upon the argument. Everything from world cup fatigue to jet lag was blamed instead of it. Now it seems a much more common theme on the boards to see people giving more credence to the fact that, once players learn tactics to a T, and understand each others game, things begin to happen naturally. It's a process people have learned from watching us endure the same things every new season, only for it to suddenly begin to click, and without a change in formation or signature of a new player. But even this argument doesn't solve it all. If it was simply a matter of Understanding, how does that explain the team who spent all of last season understanding Benitez' ideas, suddenly being unable to cope with such simple things as a three pass move, all over again? Would such small tactical changes, added to the incorporation of new faces into the team create so much unbalance? Of course, we may suffer as a result of Rafa's emphasis on small detail. We may also profit from it on many occasions.It is well documented that he studies every action in great depth. But maybe it's our continuing change which brings about the teething troubles we have every season. Like I say, If Rafa has a philosophy on how he wants to play, and his idea of a perfect team, he's had to build it slowly. To constantly form and change it year after year. I think we are suffering as much as a result of our inability to match the large scale changes teams like chelsea and man utd can make. Man utd are a perfect example. A team who's stuttering start to the season ended emphatically in a European and Domestic triumph. The team that drew, lost , and scrapped it's way through the beginning of the last campaign , flew through the latter stages of it. Now they're in a position to hit the ground running again. No large scale changes were needed this time round, he did most of it last season. He's had that advantage. A breath of fresh air was needed, he had an idea, and he was able to undertake the work all at once. When you combine this factor with the fact that the players he signed were capable of brilliance, and were added to a team filled already with players capable of great things, it makes the teething process somewhat easier to endure. When you can play below par and still win courtesy of a Rooney volley or a Ronaldo dribble, it's not such a hard life anymore. Maybe herein lies the problem. Some part of it anyway. The building process is one we've all got opinions on. Some want a small number of quality acquisitions. Others see the reason behind large scale and gradual upgrading of an entire team. One man insists we should sign Quaresma. The next man thinks it better to cover the gaping holes in the squad with multiple signings of an acceptable quality, then concentrate funds on key areas in the future. Clubs like Chelsea, Man Utd and now it would appear, even Man city, do not have such questions to ponder. Upgrading can be done in a flash. `No compromise in quality needed here` reads the message on the envelope containing the blank chequebook given to Fergie and his mates. We are a big club by name. Not such a Goliath by nature. Not just yet.... But people will overlook such factors. It would, after all, require greater mental strength and more character to acknowledge these things, and learn to understand how our path must be different from those above us in the financial stakes, than it would to blame the boss, the formation, the price of oil.. Can't we somehow, after five years of the same thing, begin to look just a little deeper into why these things happen? Have we not evolved during the time of Rafael Benitez, to understand that, for some unexplainable reason, we do manage to grow into a highly efficient team during the course of the season, and ask ourselves why that might be? Are we incapable of coming to any greater conclusion that "we've changed formation"? We changed formation the year before, and before that, and since a few times. Yet every single time we manage to come up playing good football, winning games we really have no right to expect victory from. Surely this, if nothing else, grants Benitez, his ideas, and his new signings a stay of execution, if only for as long as it takes us to recap on what has happened every single season so far. Maybe, just maybe, we can find positive ways to look at the situation and why it may be occurring, as oppose to assuming the worst, or discussing the course of action should the most disastrous scenario unfold. It's unfortunate that the same people rear their head at the same time every season, only to retreat into hiding soon after, maybe popping out from the bunker to urge the board to back the fantastic manager we have. Why does the faith they have in April and May when they're trawling the net for cheap flights to Istanbul and Athens (or more likely planning the night off work) not carry over the August - September period? But why, if people are adamant that we need a change of manager, do they hardly ever have educated answers as to who they'd like in charge, and why? Ask someone who thinks Benitez should be sacked, who they'd have in to do a better job with the resources. The answer? :Er.... No, that's actually the answer. "er" They don't know. It is highly unlikely anyone would do much better. It's unlikely we could find anyone to do even half as well. What was the near unanimous declaration when we signed Keane? The answer? "He'll be a good foil for Torres" Whether or not they'd have chosen someone else, or think he's worth the money, that was the opinion of the vast majority. Of course, now the breakup of the Steven Gerrard Fernando Torres "partnership" will be highlighted as another factor responsible for our woes. And guess who's fault it is? Yep. The little Irish get. And the Spanish idiot for bringing him in. That's what £20M gets you; a lower quality team......Didn't you know?..... Honest to god. It's the real truth. Swear down.... Sorry to whoever this offends, but all this s**** really proves is how spoon fed some people are by sky sports, and how pig ignorant and shameless some people can be. Singing the praises of someone one minute then blasting him the very second he shows signs that he might need time to adapt. The same people coming onto forums yabbering on about how thick Charlie Nickville and his cronies are, are also unaware as to just how vulnerable they are to the damaging influence of the constantly repeated Cliche. When The world class passer that is Steven Gerrard, Plays behind the world class striker that is Fernando Torres, you will inevitably find that the world class passes from the world class Gerrard find the world class runs of the world class Torres. Who usually applies a world class finish. It's what they do, these world class sorts. And so the Gerrard & Torres legend is born..... Let's overlook the fact that they're just two very good players, and instead find mysterious ways in which we can describe their "telepathic" understanding..... Maybe Torres is infact a distant relative of Gerrard, and their bloodline was always destined to intertwine in such a way. Did you know Gerrard was from Ironside close on the bluebell? Did you know that it's just down the road from Malta close? It's hot in Malta isn't it? Guess where Torres is from? Hot there too. Coincidence? See. Destiny. Maybe it's just the result of Andy Gray or Paul Merson exclaiming "ooooh it's that Stevie, Torresy Partnershippy in action again!" Every time Torres scores from a Gerrard pass....I doubt it though. Nobody would ever be blagged by them d****eads would they?! Ha. As if. Yeah, it's deffo the Malta thing. Mystic Meg must be laughing into her crystal b******. Even she wasn't this bad. Years of stagnation have taken their toll. The famine we've had to endure on Merseyside has sucked dry the entire anatomy of some sections of the Liverpool fanbase. No longer do half of our fans understand football the way they used to. The most knowledgeable football brains were once educated by the cultured teams of old. Shankly taught us what it was all about. Paisley gave us our degree. Souness, Hansen, Barnes, Beardsley, Rush, Keegan and Dalglish held masterclasses every week. People were well fed back then. Understood what it was all about. They understood what it took to make a good team. Some still do. Unfortunately the starving, thirsty, undernourished see Gerrard and Torres working in tandem as an Oasis. They crave it. It is the only thing that can keep us alive, apparently. When nasty old Rafa decides he's going to bring in a digger, someone who can harvest the supply , and instructs him to build a well, those who thirst for what they've never had, scream and shout. They only see the rubble and ruin it has created. No longer is it the fertile patch of land it once was. Now all it resembles is a mess. They walk away at their peril. But they throw stones and demand the foreman to stop work immediately at the cost of everyone else. Those who understand what the digger is for, understand too that, providing the excavation is successful, they will soon be enjoying a bounty to reward their patience. When the work is done the water will flow, and the peasants will also be allowed to drink. Even those who threw stones.

According to my girl, the harder and fatter the better. Worth £7M though?

Barry is as good as, if not better than the players mentioned here. That's the beginning and end of this argument. It's a bit tiresome the way people use the England thing, whether it be them highlighting barry's selection as sole proof that he's worth the money, or as a means of fishing out irrelevant players who've pulled on the jersey and highlighting this as conclusive evidence that, because they're not worth a carrot any more, Barry isn't either. Barry is a good player who Rafa thought was worth the money. He was Benitez's main man. His top priority. That, more than England recognition, is worth £18M in my opinion. These figures turn to dust in the Euphoria of a Champions league or Premiership win. The fact is, neither may be on the cards if Benitez isn't allowed to do his job.

It's not completely stupid at all. The way you've interpreted it is a bit daft though. It is comparitive, and a fair comparison at that. Hargreaves and Carrick are both holding players of english nationality. They were both signed for similar amounts of money. All he is saying in this article that, based on that alone, their valuation is not so over the top. As he also states, Barry is the club captain, and the link around which everything else would be built. I don't see why it's such a ludicrous comparison.

Oh yea! I know what you mean. I was only thinking to myself today, does Dossena remind me of Kennedy in the way he runs as a player. He you does?

I disagree. Garcia was not good enough for the very reason he was so frustratingly inconsistent. Ultimately the teams with the big cash can afford players who have the "x-factor" as you put it, but who produce on a regular basis. Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney, Torres, Gerrard, Fabregas, Messi, Kaka, Villa and a considerable number of others all have that thing you're talking about, but are all frighteningly good players because they do it all the time. There are hardly any games at all throughout the season where the above don't at least impress you with their touch, passing, vision, finishing, or skill. That's the difference. Quaresma, for me, is not in that category. He can do great things at certain times. But he is a youtube babe. When all his fancy tricks and flicks are compiled into one montage, he looks incredible. But too often the things he tries do not come off, and he can often have little impact on a game.

All we can do is support his decisions. Maybe there will be questions, but ultimately he has earned the respect and trust of the fans that he will make the right moves and do the right thing.

My point prongsy is he's going to get things wrong time to time obviously, but the signing of Barry is very obviously a tactical adjustment, if that makes any sense. Now if there's one area Rafa seems to have a lot of expertise it is in the tactical department. If he sees Barry as important in enabling him to achieve a goal, then surely, despite any reservations, we have to be optimistic that he will get it right. Jeffers represented a terrible fcuck up for Wenger. But if you hear they've just signed someone for £10M, you are still expecting him to be class. That's the reputation he's earned himself. Rafa has too, in my opinion. Even from a standpoint that is, in comparison to the hugely knowledgable mind of Rafa, somewhat uneducated, you have to see what Barry could bring to the team in terms of balance and consistency. That in itself is something that could have a great impact next season. His signing of two quality left footed players is very obviously going to make us a certain percentage stronger and more creative as a team. Dossena seems like he'd be very comfortable as a left sided midfielder too, whilst Barry can operate at left back. It really does bring a multitude of options with only two signings. When you consider that we ended the season just 11 points behind a team who did the double over us, whilst I can understand people being resentful of a class lad like Alonso leaving, that can only be cause for optimism.

Quaresma is a fancy, inconsistent liability, and a prick also. Villa is Beautiful.

In that case sir, I apologise. To be fair though, having hope that this deal falls through, regardless of how much you like Alonso, is, in a sense, hoping Rafa fails in what he's trying to do. You're not alone on this either. There seem to be many people hoping and praying that this deal doesn't go through. That to me is ridiculous.

And you don't know as much about football as he does.

Hmmm....er, ok. So when you said "yes"! did it mean you were unhappy that Alonso's transfer would not go through? Like when you win a bet, do you scream "SH**T NO"! When you **** your wife, at the very end, do you shout "NO WAY"!!! When you get sacked from work, or lose twenty squid on the bus home, do you scream "GET IN THERE YOU BEAUTY" !!! Ahhh. I think I get it. Reverse psychology.... You got me. Clever lad you.

Someone has lost sight of the bigger picture.

For some reason, there was competition for Darren bent. Also, crouch only has a year left one his contract. £10M + for him and I'd be happy, as I reckon Benitez would be.

It's certainly not an unreasonable opinion by any means. But reasonable opinions and hoping our manager simply falls flat on his face are two completely different things. Rafa's ideas may not fall directly into line with what I had in mind this summer, but ultimately he's got that trust and respect that gives you confidence that what he ends up doing will benefit the club. I don't understand how anyone would, for one minute, regardless of sentimentality towards certain players, want him to be unable to achieve his goals. It's stupidity. If Rafa's hands are continually tied, I would have far more concerns about his job than Alonso's.

No, for hoping Rafa fails in what he wants to achieve. Obviously we all have preferences. But what does it achieve if our manager, the one who's preference really counts, cannot do what he needs to do to acheive the things he wants? It's a strange starnge take on things to put it mildly.

WHat an idiot.

To be fair to the villa fans, I think they have become resigned to the fact that he wants to go, and just want this over as quickly as possible.

To offer a very basic assessment of Xabi, I'd say simply that, given space to pass, his passing range can be a potent weapon. But when not given space, his severe lack of mobility and agility can make him a liability. Now try saying that ten times fast.

Apparent,y, if you're most of Europe's big clubs, you don't buy Alonso either. You just don't buy him for £14 million pounds. Let's be real here, I hate the argument which states that the clubs that are interested in a player is the main factor in how good he is. Obviously it's simply not true. But when you look at a player of Alonso's obvious qualities, it makes you wonder why the big guns in Europe who more than likely haven't got a player who has the long range passing accuracy of Alonso, aren't in for him. Why is that do you think? Is it anything to do with the fact that he has zero agility, zero acceleration, and has offered no incision from our midfield in years, do you think? I actually like Alonso. He's a really decent fella, and he's an excellent passer of the ball. I just think overall, he's vastly overrated by some. Sentimentality is what's fuelling these doom merchants.

I also like Alonso as a player actually. I think I just have to add that. Infact if he stayed I would be happy enough. But there are little flaws in his game which I think are most likely to be a problem in the premier league than anywhere else. Those aspects are not affected by form or injury either. I think he'd be better suited to Serie A or La liga to be honest. I think Barry provides you with a bit more stability and balance in the team

David, I actually didn't base my assesments on what you call his "decline". I don't think it's a decline as such. More a part of his game that has become more of a problem. Like I said initially, I think xabi, when not presented with an option to pass to, and in a tight space, is a bit of a liability. He just doesn't have even the slightest required mobility or agility to afford himself a bit of time. I don't think he's a key first teamer either.