Lanus

we are showing progress though. We were top of the table for a while (until the owners meddled with their s****) but also our first 11 is quite a bit better.. people just dont realsie that we are and always have been miles off the top and until the learn to accept that and the gradual development of our club than the better, cause the greener side is where newcastle play.

we really do not look like winning the league but to say we've not developed is just not right. OK, you mightbe talking in terms of a comparison tot he other top teams? well lucky for them they all had great managers too.

if you want to talk about solid postions then tell me about the times that reina, Carra, gerrard, Torres and a few other are rotated. Torres was in fact rotated at first but guess what? he made it his own...

I've not actually called everyone c****... Im sure you know who im talking about. the fact that you are probably one of them says a lot really.

Steve, I know you won;t agree with my rant against some here. This point is exactly right though. It's hard to have patience when you're expecting to win the league every season.

what's your point?

Am I the only one who thinks it's a little bit ********* to say that you love a manager for Istanbul but also want him sacked because he can't win a league that gets more competitive every year?

Since when is it my case? If Rafa can make the team play well then what exactly is your argument? he makes what he has to work with, play well. he has improved the quality of our first 11, squad and youth team.

Don't mock me or other supports with yer statement that you love Rafa for Istanbul. the fact is, you're not happy and YOU think he isn't good enough. he never will be without real financial backing.

Also to blame a manger only for playing well but not winning is pure real madrid insanity. The manager can only work with what he has and even though I think we have a far better team than we did when we won the CL in 05, I think the the english premiership has gotten better and better. Talk all you want of the Rafa failed signing but what about the other teams failed signings? I cant think of too many but Im sure someone here could... Kezman for chelsea was a complete flop. shevchenko, veron and the other less expesive but not cheap signings that never made an impact at utd like jemba jemba... Kuyt hasnt worked out and was expesive... but that's the name of the name of the game.. and going by what i've seen, rafa has done bloody well this season in terms of transfers... argue that with me.

I picked 2 games, you picked 1... and for your inforamtion, we beat chelsea that day. pro or anti Rafa, we were robbed... the fact that I could only think of 2 games is more a statement of my lack of memory rather than the teams actual performance though. Who is everyone gonna believe though, me or grampa simpson.

So you wouldn't see any change in form for our club , say since the undermining of our manager this season?

nice how you picked out the highest scoring game this season. have you noticed that we have played very well at times and just not managed wins? you didnt bother watching the chelsea or man city games I take it?

I suppose Torres was a shocking waste of potential drywall?

well you can judge whoever and whatever you want at any time... but going by what i've seen frm you so far, that amounts to nothing.

To say the players don't care is harsh.. they clearly do but things are totaly mental at the moment. To say that off the field matter like this do not affect the players is just plain stupid. the best thing we can do is to get behind the manager.

Exactly, from what I have seen rafa has had a fantastic season. Obviously not in terms of results but he wasnt exactly helped there now was he! When it comes to the signings that he apparently gets wrong (Mascherano, Lucas, benayoun, torres and babel)... name another manager who did as well. Sure they weren;t cheap, but they all seem to be fitting in nicely and that's all that matters. funny how we have a stronger squad and first 11 this season yet we seem to be dipping in form... I wonder what may be the cause of that? must be the manager who has been in charge for the last couple of years.

I'm sorry but your hunch does not stand well againt 2 Spanish league titles, a UEFA cup, a CL cup and an FA cup. not sure rafa even has a section on his CV for his hunches .

I really don;t like you.

bread and butter and holy grail.... what was the CL then? jesus, Im sit and tired of the people who expect things to get better and better, year in and out... there will be bloody times when we will not progress at all... as long as the overall movement is up then grand but as far as I'm concerned, all you 'people' have nicely forgotten what Rafa has won for us since he came and you all want to throw it away on a f***ing whim. No suggestions of who to replace him with.. all the talk is Rafa out.. that;s it. Goes to show exactly the level od depth of thought that these people go through.

Even though you clearly have your own doubts about Rafa, I agree. The players have to shoulder the responsibility and they just arent doing that. we have been looking to Gerrard for inspiration for years and I am afriad that he might be a little burnt out. Torres has come a long and just when things were looking good for us, the owners came out and f***ed everything up. I am not blaming everything on our current owners but I am doubting their commitment. I will say that the blame lies on the players, the manager and the previous owners for not backing the manager in the transfers that eh wanted to make. I am not saying Rafa is blameless. I don;t always agree with his team selections... but to say that he isnt up to the job is simply Championship manager talk and I wont have it as we stand to lose one of the greatest things to happen to us for years. I'm not the only one who can still get some fun out of watching out 05 CL victory (which was the greatest game of football ever played in my view).... so lets not just cut Rafa some slack, but give him and his team all we can . it's going to be some few weeks like.

So you're saying that we're underachieving because of Rafa. I am saying that we are underachieving in spite of Rafa.

Exactly, it is funny that Crouch is possibly our best option for a strike partner but if we were to win the league with him then it would be in spite of his contribution and not cause of it.

1) The rotation policy that Rafa brought to liverpool might well have been what won us the CL in 05. 2) The players being annoyed about rotation? Players are rotated until they make that position their own. it is very very simple.

But that is it... I think that anyone who thinks Rafa should be fired, is an idiot.