GWistooshort

I wonder if he's subconsciously still got a hang up from his injury last season - he may subconsciously be worried about injuring himself every time he jumps

Unfortunately neither did he

Can we do anything about it now? no

It could be worse Kev, he could have taken Voronin

All 3 are

Here's the squad for those who haven't seen it............... Pepe Reina, Diego Cavalieri, Glen Johnson, Daniel Agger, Fabio Aurelio, Emiliano Insua, Sotirios Kyrgiakos, Jamie Carragher, Martin Skrtel, Andrea Dossena, Alberto Aquilani, Steven Gerrard, Yossi Benayoun, Javier Mascherano, Lucas, Jay Spearing, Dirk Kuyt, David Ngog. http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N...091123-0957.htm Agger, Johnson & Carra (the Mirror said he was limping heavily at the end of the Man City match & was a doubt for Debrecen) all in, but no Babel nor Riera

Daily Mirror 23/11/09 Liverpool facing injury crisis for crucial Champions League clash By David Maddock Liverpool have yet more injury worries as they go in search of a Champions' League miracle this week. They fly to Hungary today looking for results to go their way to give them a chance of remaining in the competition. But they will do it without striker Fernando Torres, who will not travel to face Debrecen, despite training for the best part of a week. And there are major doubts about Glen Johnson, who was due to face Manchester City on Saturday, but pulled out at the last minute after feeling a twinge in the hours leading up to the game. And with Daniel Agger and Ryan Babel limping out of the contest early, both are unlikely to be available for the European tie that will be pivotal to Liverpool's season. Worse could follow though. Jamie Carragher was limping badly at the end, and he will undergo fitness tests this morning to decide if he will travel to Hungary. And both Steven Gerrard and Javier Mascherano looked uncomfortable as they left Anfield, to suggest that they too could be carrying knocks after the intense battle against City. http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Liver...icle229571.html

Watch the post-match interview by clicking on the links below............. Rafa (BBC) [3:03] Rafa (Sky) [2:34] Man City manager Mark Hughes (BBC) [3:04] Hughes (Sky) [3:01] Man City's Stephen Ireland & Emmanuel Adebayor (Sky) [2:02]

The Times match report says that because of our injury problems Gerrard had to "spend much of his time playing as an auxiliary centre-forward" alongside Ngog & when Torres returns Gerrard will "return to his rightful place at the heart of his team" (ie centre mid). It really makes you wonder some times. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/foo...icle6926714.ece

Bayern Munich have confirmed that in the summer they received a bid from Chelsea of €65m plus Bosingwa for Ribéry, plus offers from others of €76m & €80m for the player, who they say "always said to us that he would like to move to Real Madrid". http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/no...munich-bosingwa

Sunday Mirror 22/11/09 Liverpool lining up January move for Ruud van Nistelrooy - Exclusive By Simon Mullock Ruud Van Nistelrooy is being lined up for a New Year move to Liverpool. The Dutch striker is surplus to requirements at Real Madrid as he recovers from the latest of a series of injuries that have limited him to four appearances this season. Anfield boss Rafa Benitez is looking at the possibility of taking the former Manchester United striker on loan until the end of the season as he aims to add firepower to his team. Van Nistelrooy, 33, is also attracting interest from Tottenham and Manchester City as he nears fitness following a thigh problem. But he would prefer a move to Anfield because he believes Liverpool will still be fighting for the Premier League title at the end of the season – and that would help him secure a place in Holland’s World Cup squad. It’s a move that would send shock waves all the way to Old Trafford. Sir Alex Ferguson believed he landed a huge psychological blow on Benitez when he persuaded former Liverpool striker Michael Owen to join United in the summer. Recruiting Van Nistelrooy would give the Merseysiders a big New Year lift as they look to get back into the title race. Van Nistelrooy scored 95 goals in 150 appearances for United before moving to Spain three years ago in a £18million deal after falling out with Ferguson. Real signed Cristiano Ronaldo and Karim Benzema last summer, while Van Nistelrooy is also behind Bernabeu golden boy Raul in the pecking order. Benitez will be given a limited budget for signings in January – and a loan move for Van Nistelrooy is a big attraction. Van Nistelrooy’s goal-scoring pedigree is impressive. In three seasons he has been the Champions League top marksman. He is currently the Champions League second highest scorer – only Raul has more. As well as having World Cup aspirations Van Nistelrooy also needs to secure a long-term contract. His current agreement with Real expires next summer. The other big attraction for Benitez is that Van Nistelrooy can operate as a solo striker in the way he currently deploys Fernando Torres. http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Liver...icle227961.html

From the Echo yesterday............ JAVIER MASCHERANO’S future at Liverpool continues to be the subject of some debate with more claims that Barcelona are closing in on a deal for him. Those reports last weekend, though, were met with bewilderment in the corridors of power at Anfield, as they are fully tuned into who at the Camp Nou wants to sign him and why there is no possibility of it happening. For starters, Mascherano – a hugely influential cog in the Red wheel – is not for sale. Rafa Benitez made that clear in the summer and his stance over the player he rescued from West Ham’s reserves has not wavered one bit. But Barcelona are not in a position to pursue a deal for Mascherano while there is still so much uncertainty over the future of their coach Pep Guardiola, whose contract runs out at the end of the current season. Guardiola is the man who wants to sign Mascherano, not any of Barcelona’s board. So while they do not know what the future holds for the man who led them to a treble last season, they are certainty not going to sanction such a huge signing in January. That is why, then, Mascherano – whose form has picked up considerably in recent weeks – will be a Liverpool player until the end of this season at the very least. http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-f...252-25216514/2/

Sunday Mirror 22/11/09 Fernando Torres losing battle to be fit for Merseyside derby By Simon Mullock Fernando Torres is losing his fight to be fit for next week’s Merseyside derby. Liverpool’s Spanish striker is sidelined by a groin injury since playing through the pain barrier in the Champions League draw with Lyon at the start of the month. He returned to training last week and was expected to return this week. But Rafa Benitez has admitted that Torres will miss the Champions League trip to Debrecen on Tuesday night and that the clash with rivals Everton at Goodison Park next Sunday may also be a game too soon. Benitez said: “Torres had a plan of fitness that would take three weeks working with the physios. “You can see he is improving all the time, but I would say that he is still maybe 10 days away from being right. “The next few days will decide whether he will be fit for Everton, but at this moment there are no guarantees.” http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Ferna...icle228165.html

The Times 23 November 2009 Fernando Torres and Ryan Babel set to miss must-win match for Liverpool Tony Barrett Fernando Torres will not be fit enough to travel to Hungary for Liverpool’s Champions League match against Debrecen tomorrow. Liverpool go into the game in the knowledge that only the combination of a victory in Budapest and Fiorentina dropping points at home to Lyons will keep alive their slim hopes of qualifying for the knockout stages. Torres will remain on Merseyside to continue receiving treatment on the groin injury that has kept the Spain striker out of action for the past fortnight and faces a race against time to be fit for the Merseyside derby against Everton at Goodison Park on Sunday. “We thought it’d be two or three weeks and he’s only about 12 or 13 days into that, so there’s no point in Torres going [to Hungary],” Rafael Benítez, the Liverpool manager, said. Ryan Babel, the winger, is also likely to be missing from the Liverpool squad having suffered an ankle injury during Saturday’s 2-2 draw with Manchester City at Anfield, but Daniel Agger, who was also substituted having sustained a facial injury that required five stitches, is expected to be available. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/foo...icle6927610.ece

Sounds from his press conference yesterday that Rafa thought he was still going to get Barry last summer "we wanted him,'' said Benítez. "He decided at the last minute on another option and I was not happy with that. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/...ndo-Torres.html

From the Daily Telegraph this morning.......... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/...ndo-Torres.html

Harry Redknapp admits Pavlychenko could leave Daily Mirror 21/11/09 Spurs want expensive Roma therapy for Roman Pavlyuchenko By Mirror Sport TOTTENHAM boss Harry Redknapp has told Roma they can forget about getting Roman Pavlyuchenko on the cheap. The Russian is desperate to quit White Hart Lane in January after falling behind Jermain Defoe, Robbie Keane and Peter Crouch in the striking pecking order. Roma are keen and sent director Daniele Prade to London for talks earlier in the week. But Redknapp made it clear Spurs intended to recoup as much of the £13.8million they paid Spartak Moscow last summer as possible. He said: “That would be up to the chairman but he’s not a player we want to lose. Roman wants to play regularly but it’s been difficult because the other strikers have all been great. “There has been talk about him having to move to get games but we are happy with him. If he’s not happy and somebody wants to pay the right money for him then something might happen but he won’t be leaving here cheaply.” http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Spurs...icle227285.html

Click on the links below for clips from Rafa's pre-match press conference today................. (There's quite a bit of overlap between the two, but some differences too, which is why I've included them both) BBC [3:14] Liverpool Echo [3:39]

From Sky Sports............. Benitez supports new treatment Quartet in line for return after 'surprise' success of placenta Last updated: 20th November 2009 Liverpool boss Rafa Benitez has admitted four of his top stars have received special placenta treatment to step recovery from injury. Glen Johnson, Fabio Aurelio, Yossi Benayoun and Albert Riera have each visited a Serbian clinic in Belgrade, run by physiotherapist Mariana Kovacevic. The unique treatment involves a massage with placenta and has recently emerged as a popular new form of speeding up the healing process for athletes with muscle problems. All four players have since returned to full training and are in contention for Saturday's visit of Manchester City, with a Champions League trip to Debrecen on Tuesday and the Merseyside derby at Everton next Sunday. Ironically, it was former City player Riera who suggested the treatment after hearing good reports from former teammate Pablo Zabaleta, who has underwent treatment at the same clinic in the past. Benitez said: "We knew of other players at Premier League clubs who have been to Belgrade for treatment with this lady, and we were made aware that it was very effective. Zabaleta told Riera about it. "She has been working for seven years with top-class sportsmen, not just footballers. So she has the experience. Opportunity "We felt it was a good opportunity to send some of our players. We sent two, Benayoun and Riera and they came back and started training straight away. "So we decided to send two more, Johnson and Aurelio, and the same thing has happened. They have been training and all four will be in the squad against City. "Arsenal's Robin van Persie went earlier, but now there are several more top players who are going to have treatment in the same way. "City have sent two, (Vincent) Kompany and Zabaleta beforehand, and they were playing within days. "There have been no injections, it is a placenta cream applied with a (massage) machine that creates waves of pressure." He added: "Many top players have been going there for seven years, it has been successful and I believe it is safe. "It is good for specific injuries, doctors have explained the treatment and the components of the cream that is used. We are happy with it. "We checked it out when we became aware of the different players who had been there. I must admit we have been surprised with how well it has worked." Benitez admits that the success of the treatment will only be fully determined on how his players come through the physical strains of a competitive match, with City proposing a real threat at Anfield. "It means we have players available and training that we expected to be out for several weeks. Can we guarantee that they are fully fit? We will see, but they have trained with the rest of the team for three days and they are OK." http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11669_5707583,00.html

QUARTET FIT AFTER 'SPECIAL TREATMENT' Jimmy Rice 20 November 2009 Rafa Benitez today revealed how four of his injured stars could be fit for Man City after flying to Serbia for 'special treatment'. Albert Riera and Yossi Benayoun were due to be out for another two weeks with hamstring problems but could now feature on Saturday after the much-publicised journey to eastern Europe. Benitez was so pleased with the treatment they received that he sent Fabio Aurelio and Glen Johnson to Serbia for work on their muscle injuries. All four players are now back in Merseyside and have taken part in full training sessions for the past two days. Benitez told Liverpoolfc.tv: "You know people have talked about them going to Serbia for special treatment and that's true. We had a lot of reports of international players going there, so we sent some players. "They are now training so we will see if they can play. They have trained for the last two days. "It has been good. There are other names from different teams who have been doing this treatment for seven years. "It is a curative program for players with muscle injuries and it works well." The major injury headache confronting Benitez before the international break has now almost cleared, with Steven Gerrard, David Ngog and Daniel Agger all passed fit for City. Fernando Torres is the only senior star still in the treatment room. Benitez added: "He is improving. He had a plan of two or three weeks, he's following this and improving." http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N...091120-1335.htm

Wouldn't have thought so given Rafa's comments yesterday http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N...091119-1107.htm

You're right - the we have to beat them 3-0 statement I posted earlier came from the official website which I took at face value. We can beat Fiorentina 2-0 & go through provided we beat Debrecen by 4 clear goals & Fiorentina draw with Lyon as it would then come down to overall goal difference d) in the UEFA list as we will be tied with Fiorentina on a), b) & c) & Fiorentina's goal difference would be +3 & ours would be +4. Winning by more than 4 clear goals against Debrecen wouldn't make any difference to how many we need to score against Fiorentina - we still need to win by 2-0 to avoid Fiorentina going through by virtue of having a better goal difference from our matches with them - b) in the UEFA list. Away goals could be an issue as well in the game against Fiorentina (if they draw against Lyon) because 2-0 would be enough for us to go through (provided we beat Debrecen by 4 clear goals) but if Fiorentina score a 3-1 victory for us isn't enough - we would tie on a) & b) in the UEFA list, but Fiorentina would go through on the basis of scoring an away goal c). If they score 1 we then need to score 4. If they score the overall goal difference in the group & the number of goals we score against Debrecen becomes irrelevant.

KELLY: MY RESPECT FOR YOUNG RIVAL Jimmy Rice 20 November 2009 In Martin Kelly and Daniel Ayala, Liverpool have two of the most promising defenders in English football. Both are 19, both have represented their country at youth level and both were fast-tracked to Melwood in the summer of 2007. So how does one feel when the other receives a shock first-team call for a Barclays Premier League fixture in front of the Kop? This was the dilemma facing Kelly when Ayala was selected ahead of him for a full debut against Stoke City back in August. "There is a healthy rivalry," said Kelly, who was promoted from the Academy aged just 17. "He came in from Spain when I came up from the Academy. We bonded and I have to take my hat off to Danny this season. He's done well and I have to respect that. "I've got to play football for myself and not look at what anyone else is doing. I need to focus on what I'm doing as a football player and hopefully I'm developing well. "My dad has always said to me to let other players worry about me. That's what I try to do." Thankfully this professional attitude paid off for Kelly when he took advantage of another injury crisis to start at right-back against Lyon last month. His surging runs down the right combined with solid defending earned nods of appreciation from the same Kopites who got behind Ayala months earlier. Kelly is quick to thank another Academy graduate for some inspiring words prior to kick-off. He explained: "You have an idea you're playing during training but I didn't know for sure until about an hour and a half before kick-off. Then the butterflies started. "Luckily, Jay (Spearing) made his debut the week before, so he was going through a similar thing. "I'd told him that the boss clearly believed in him, so he had to go out there and take his chance. And he was there to say the same to me. We sit next to each other in the changing room, so he gave me a little bit of advice. "It lived up to expectations. At the start when You'll Never Walk Alone finished and then we ran out to the Champions League music - you can't get better than that. "Now I've had a taste of playing in the first team I want to play as much as I can." Kelly's desire for senior football could be aided by a versatility which was illustrated on loan at Huddersfield Town last term. "At the moment I don't know which is my best position," said the 19-year-old. "I'll play anywhere across the back four. When I went to Huddersfield I played at left-back for the first three games and it didn't seem any different to right-back. I don't mind where I play. "I've been working hard on the tactical side of my game, which helps. That's coming along and I can't thank the coaching staff enough for what they've done to bring me on as a player. "The defenders here are top-class players but I'll be trying my hardest in training. "They (Jamie Carragher, Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel) have been great with me, giving me advice and telling me how to put anything I'm doing wrong right. "Training with them every day is fantastic - I can't wait to get out there with them and then I don't want the training sessions to finish." As well as looking at those ahead of him in the pecking order, Kelly is all too aware of the threat from behind. One budding defender who has earned rave reviews for the second string this year is Paris St Germain prodigy Chris Mavinga. "You've always got to look behind you for who is coming up," said Kelly. "That pushes you on as a player. You look at what's coming behind and look at those in front so you're aiming for something. "I've seen Chris in a few reserve games and he's done well." http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N...091120-0840.htm

From UEFA's regulations (Paragraph 7.06)..... http://www.uefa.com/multimediafiles/downlo...44_download.pdf

He'd been dropped from the squad