League Progress

[Jim D]

Past three seasons I have been keeping a record of our performance in the league under Rafa. The following graph shows where we have picked up points along the way and it looks like we are pretty much status quo in terms of progression.

 

 

Looking at that there are some keys things:

 

1. Around the 30 game mark we are pretty much at the same number of points than we have been for the past 3 seasons.

 

2. This season we have had a much better start than the previous two.

 

3. Half way through the season we always seem to hit a major slump but that was an exception to last season because we had such a poor start.

 

4. Saying that we finish strongly towards the end of the season because of rotation appears to be a myth.

 

Can anyone shed some light onto these trends, in terms of how Rafa treats his squad? This has nothing to do with the result today, it is not a knee jerk reaction but an overall assessment of Rafa's tenure in English football.

[Florist Cinema Pond Goal]

4. Saying that we finish strongly towards the end of the season because of rotation appears to be a myth.

 

Finished pretty well in 05/06. Last season's results were slightly skewed as we rested players after beating Chelsea in the CL semis and got 1 point from 9 against Portsmouth, Charlton and Fulham.

[Guz]

It's obvious to a blind, deaf and dumb man that we've stagnated in the last couple of years. 05/06 we made some real strides and got within touching distance of the mancs. Since then they've shot up and we've just stood still. Signings in summer 2006 didn't help us at all with only Kuyt and Aurelio playing regularly now and I think a lot of people would agree that neither of them are good enough. The mancs have signed the likes of Hargreaves, Carrick, Tevez, Anderson and Nani since then. We can debate the merits of someone like Carrick but they're all (excluding Tevez currently) huge money signings and have contibuted to what looks like 2 league titles in a row. I think it's been money well spent on Torres, Mascherano and Babel but we still need two more probably.

 

We've stagnated again this year but as much as people may hate this to be brought up I still think the whole manager/owners spat has to be taken into consideration when judging our season. Sure that doesn't explain some of the dropped points earlier in the season and shouldn't be used as an excuse just to mask our failings but it happened and must've had an impact.

[Gooner Spy]

It's obvious to a blind, deaf and dumb man that we've stagnated in the last couple of years. 05/06 we made some real strides and got within touching distance of the mancs. Since then they've shot up and we've just stood still. Signings in summer 2006 didn't help us at all with only Kuyt and Aurelio playing regularly now and I think a lot of people would agree that neither of them are good enough. The mancs have signed the likes of Hargreaves, Carrick, Tevez, Anderson and Nani since then. We can debate the merits of someone like Carrick but they're all (excluding Tevez currently) huge money signings and have contibuted to what looks like 2 league titles in a row. I think it's been money well spent on Torres, Mascherano and Babel but we still need two more probably.

 

We've stagnated again this year but as much as people may hate this to be brought up I still think the whole manager/owners spat has to be taken into consideration when judging our season. Sure that doesn't explain some of the dropped points earlier in the season and shouldn't be used as an excuse just to mask our failings but it happened and must've had an impact.

 

As an outsider looking in, I hope you dont mind my contribution here (as a Gooner), but I certainly dont think 'stagnated' is the right word. I think you have come on leaps and bounds this year - in the last couple of years, I never really had any fear of playing Liverpool, as i thought you were light years away from being a genuine threat. Now, with Mascherano and Torres added to the mix, you are a different proposition altogether.

 

I think you have grossly underachieved in the League, and the reasons for that I do not fully understand, but I know one thing for sure, next season, with Torres and co Acclimatised to the Prem, you have to be big contenders.

Edited March 23, 2008 by jmd4211

[Guest DanTheDaggerman]

Interesting stats there, Jim.

 

I think "stagnation" is not so much improving against our results in previous years, but against the other top sides. They have also improved (to varying extents), so it still feels like we have not moved on in the league.

[Guest Snorky]

We've been above average in the league under Rafa. We have achieved the bare minimum, nothing more nothing less.

[Gooner Spy]

Benitez' league record against Man Utd makes interesting reading though.....

[anfield11]

As an outsider looking in, I hope you dont mind my contribution here (as a Gooner), but I certainly dont think 'stagnated' is the right word. I think you have come on leaps and bounds this year - in the last couple of years, I never really had any fear of playing Liverpool, as i thought you were light years away from being a genuine threat. Now, with Mascherano and Torres added to the mix, you are a different proposition altogether.

 

I think you have grossly underachieved in the League, and the reasons for that I do not fully understand, but I know one thing for sure, next season, with Torres and co Acclimatised to the Prem, you have to be big contenders.

 

I think we all know we need at least another 2 of similar quality to Masch and Torres to move up a step and personally I think Rafa is capable of finding them. But thanks for the confidence. I think you'll find a large percentage here would prefer Arsenal win the league if we can't; looking doubtful now though.

[Gooner Spy]

We've been above average in the league under Rafa. We have achieved the bare minimum, nothing more nothing less.

 

Jesus though, dont forget the weight of 2 Champions League Finals. Thats just phenomenal.

[Gooner Spy]

I think we all know we need at least another 2 of similar quality to Masch and Torres to move up a step and personally I think Rafa is capable of finding them. But thanks for the confidence. I think you'll find a large percentage here would prefer Arsenal win the league if we can't; looking doubtful now though.

 

Never gonna happen, but thank you anyway!

[Guest Snorky]

As an outsider looking in, I hope you dont mind my contribution here (as a Gooner), but I certainly dont think 'stagnated' is the right word. I think you have come on leaps and bounds this year - in the last couple of years, I never really had any fear of playing Liverpool, as i thought you were light years away from being a genuine threat. Now, with Mascherano and Torres added to the mix, you are a different proposition altogether.

 

I think you have grossly underachieved in the League, and the reasons for that I do not fully understand, but I know one thing for sure, next season, with Torres and co Acclimatised to the Prem, you have to be big contenders.

 

We've consistently been the bridesmaids in the Premiership. Evans, Houllier and now Rafa have promised so much yet failed to deliver the holy grail.

 

I cannot see us being contenders next season, I can honestly see another season like the past 8 or 9. All huff and puff but when we come around to the real games we consistently fail. Our record against yourselves, Chelsea and the Mancs under Rafa is embarassing to say the least.

 

We have lost the same amount of games as the Mancs in the league - only 4, yet have drawn far too many against weaker teams that the others put to the sword because of the winners the Mancs, Chelsea and yourselves have. Apart from Torres, Newcastle have better strikers than us.

 

Gutted you got beat as well, Black Sunday.

[Guest Snorky]

Jesus though, dont forget the weight of 2 Champions League Finals. Thats just phenomenal.

 

And the FA Cup, and the League Cup Final and the Super Cup Final.

 

I would gladly get knocked out of every competition at the first stage if it would guarentee the championship.

[HL5]

As an outsider looking in, I hope you dont mind my contribution here (as a Gooner), but I certainly dont think 'stagnated' is the right word. I think you have come on leaps and bounds this year - in the last couple of years, I never really had any fear of playing Liverpool, as i thought you were light years away from being a genuine threat. Now, with Mascherano and Torres added to the mix, you are a different proposition altogether.

 

I think you have grossly underachieved in the League, and the reasons for that I do not fully understand, but I know one thing for sure, next season, with Torres and co Acclimatised to the Prem, you have to be big contenders.

 

 

Thanks for the good analysis, jmd4211. Anyway, what happened to your lot today? Was gunning for you, sorry about the pun, after our embarrassing loss today. Of the 3 remaining, I'd much rather have Arsenal win the title.

[Gooner Spy]

We've consistently been the bridesmaids in the Premiership. Evans, Houllier and now Rafa have promised so much yet failed to deliver the holy grail.

 

I cannot see us being contenders next season, I can honestly see another season like the past 8 or 9. All huff and puff but when we come around to the real games we consistently fail. Our record against yourselves, Chelsea and the Mancs under Rafa is embarassing to say the least.

 

We have lost the same amount of games as the Mancs in the league - only 4, yet have drawn far too many against weaker teams that the others put to the sword because of the winners the Mancs, Chelsea and yourselves have. Apart from Torres, Newcastle have better strikers than us.

 

Gutted you got beat as well, Black Sunday.

 

I'm sure you are all as gutted as I am, but I see progress in my team, as you surely must as well. This time last year we were out of all cups, and struggling to qualify for the Champions League this year. This time round, we're still "technically" in a title race, we have a bye into the Champions League Semi final - thats progress. You guys are the same, immeasurably better this year than last. And so much more to come as well - money to spend, good imports who are past the 'first year in England' syndrome. I genuinely think you're in much better shape than we are moving forward.

[Guest Snorky]

I'm sure you are all as gutted as I am, but I see progress in my team, as you surely must as well. This time last year we were out of all cups, and struggling to qualify for the Champions League this year. This time round, we're still "technically" in a title race, we have a bye into the Champions League Semi final - thats progress. You guys are the same, immeasurably better this year than last. And so much more to come as well - money to spend, good imports who are past the 'first year in England' syndrome. I genuinely think you're in much better shape than we are moving forward.

 

Liverpool Football Club is all about the league. We've never been 'technically' in any title race under Rafa and I don't think we ever will.

 

I hate defeats by the Mancs and the blues****, it takes ages to get over them.

[Huyton_Red]

Dont let todays result get you down to much

 

We are a far better team than we was when he arrived, far better. I thought we did quite well today till wes brown scored with his back and then the ref and mascerano went banjo. We are going to get them in hmoscow I can feel it in my bones and there is no english ref and not a chance in f'ckin hell god can give them another scabby goal in another game

 

We now have players of genuine quality in the middle of the pitch. It takes time for Liverpool or Arsenal to get to to utd and chelsea's level, they are in a different planet with regards to the money they have spent than us.

 

We can not do it in one or two summers, we do not have the money, same goes for arsenal, neither of us can go and buy three £20-£30 million players in one summer, Utd and chelsea have been doing that for years and it is going to take a bit of time to get up there.

 

We are getting there, the money is being well spent, reina, agger, mascerano, torres. Money well spent, the next phase begins now where we add some class out wide to the spine we already have.

 

We have missed agger desperately this season, him being out has been a huge blow for us, he is the best defender at the club and the one who brings the ball out to.

 

Torres and babbel will get better next season and we should add two or three more. Dont despair

[Guest Snorky]

Dont let todays result get you down to much

 

We are a far better team than we was when he arrived, far better. I thought we did quite well today till wes brown scored with his back and then the ref and mascerano went banjo. We are going to get them in hmoscow I can feel it in my bones and there is no english ref and not a chance in f'ckin hell god can give them another scabby goal in another game

 

We now have players of genuine quality in the middle of the pitch. It takes time for Liverpool or Arsenal to get to to utd and chelsea's level, they are in a different planet with regards to the money they have spent than us.

 

We can not do it in one or two summers, we do not have the money, same goes for arsenal, neither of us can go and buy three £20-£30 million players in one summer, Utd and chelsea have been doing that for years and it is going to take a bit of time to get up there.

 

We are getting there, the money is being well spent, reina, agger, mascerano, torres. Money well spent, the next phase begins now where we add some class out wide to the spine we already have.

 

We have missed agger desperately this season, him being out has been a huge blow for us, he is the best defender at the club and the one who brings the ball out to.

 

Torres and babbel will get better next season and we should add two or three more. Dont despair

 

Just can't see us doing anything more next year without serious serious investment.

[Gooner Spy]

Just can't see us doing anything more next year without serious serious investment.

 

I would disagree - i think your squad is phenominally stonger than ours, and, worryingly, your manager is more inclined to spend than ours, so I can see even more of a mismatch between us come August. I do think that Benitez has taken some lighter opponents too easily this season, but with a stronger squad next year, its a mistake I cant see him making again.

 

As regards the League over the Champions League - having been in Paris when we got beaten by Barca, I cant imagine how good it must feel - enjoy the success you experience with 'ol big ears!

[Guest Snorky]

I would disagree - i think your squad is phenominally stonger than ours, and, worryingly, your manager is more inclined to spend than ours, so I can see even more of a mismatch between us come August. I do think that Benitez has taken some lighter opponents too easily this season, but with a stronger squad next year, its a mistake I cant see him making again.

 

As regards the League over the Champions League - having been in Paris when we got beaten by Barca, I cant imagine how good it must feel - enjoy the success you experience with 'ol big ears!

 

I think Wenger is an excellent manager though, who can mould players into what he needs. Fabregas is one player, and all around the park you have players that I would love to see at Liverpool.

 

Rafa has made the same mistake time and time again in English football, in Europe he is untouchable, but at home where it matters to me he consistently fails.

[MFletcher]

I think Wenger is an excellent manager though, who can mould players into what he needs. Fabregas is one player, and all around the park you have players that I would love to see at Liverpool.

 

Rafa has made the same mistake time and time again in English football, in Europe he is untouchable, but at home where it matters to me he consistently fails.

 

He doesn't consistently fail though. He has shown that he can beat Arsenal, Chelsea et al in the league.

 

The only team we're consistently s*** against is United. It has to be a mental issue, because it's almost as if we're beaten before even stepping out on to the pitch.

[Gooner Spy]

I think Wenger is an excellent manager though, who can mould players into what he needs. Fabregas is one player, and all around the park you have players that I would love to see at Liverpool.

 

Rafa has made the same mistake time and time again in English football, in Europe he is untouchable, but at home where it matters to me he consistently fails.

 

Is the Premier League, slugging it out against s***house teams week in week out, more desirable that beating the best in Europe? I accept that we have won the leage more recently that Liverpool, but the Champions League is like the holy grail for us.!

[Jim D]

Rafa has made the same mistake time and time again in English football, in Europe he is untouchable, but at home where it matters to me he consistently fails.

 

What mistake(s) is that Snorky and does it reflect in the chart I've produced over the past three years performance?

[Guest Snorky]

Is the Premier League, slugging it out against s***house teams week in week out, more desirable that beating the best in Europe? I accept that we have won the leage more recently that Liverpool, but the Champions League is like the holy grail for us.!

 

The league is what every team should be judged on. It's 38 games, you can have a few dodgy games but the table never lies, the best team always wins it.

 

The CL is different and sometimes the best team doesn't win it. You have to be lucky on the day. In 2005 Milan were better than us, in 2007 we were better than them. Look what happened ?

[Guest Snorky]

What mistake(s) is that Snorky and does it reflect in the chart I've produced over the past three years performance?

 

Rotating too many players at once for a kick-off.

[Couldbe]

The league is what every team should be judged on. It's 38 games, you can have a few dodgy games but the table never lies, the best team always wins it.

 

The CL is different and sometimes the best team doesn't win it. You have to be lucky on the day. In 2005 Milan were better than us, in 2007 we were better than them. Look what happened ?

 

Don't agree in the best team usually wins the CL over the course of the season, last year Milan won it because they could put the ball in the net while we couldn't plus that extra motivation of 2005 carried them on. You could see from QL on that Milan were the team to beat last year.