David Hodgson

Sorry to disappoint, but I was taking the p*ss when I said gay people were fair game. Am I to take you literally when you refer to them as 'Queerbos' ? There is total consistency in my position if you read it carefully. I note that you don't answer the questions I posed to you about where the line gets drawn. Is all provocative chanting verbotten in your perfect world Coyler ? FWIW I was not in any way equating homosexuality with incest. I was merely taking about the experience of being insulted by football fans chants. There was never a thought in my mind to link the two, in terms of the morality of those two vastly different sexualities, though you obviously find them equatable, despite your piety.

Coyler. How do I put this....f*ck off I know where your going with this and you won't get there. I fully appreciate that in every politically correct sense, or in any sense of basic right and wrong, and simply in the spirit of human decency that songs about Georgie Best, aeroplanes etc. are absolutely abhorrent. Having said that, a great many songs sung by football fans are thoroughly offensive to a wide range of groups and individuals. They are that way because of the rivalry and tribalism the sport encourages, and thrives upon. Is it OK to sing songs about 'sh*tting on the cockneys' or about Manchester being 'full of sh*te', or about Neville and his mother? Should away fans be ejected from grounds for singing songs at Anfield about shell suits, unemployment, car stereos, etc. ? Should 'goading' in general be allowed ? It makes people angry, and tend towards a violent mindset, afterall. The tasteless nature of most football chanting is only relevant within the context of a football stadium. It is shamelessly childish and often proffered with tongues in cheek. Racist chanting, and indeed homophobic songs (if they are any in football), have a context and tradition that extends well beyond the confines of the make believe world of football. Because of that they are more sinister than purile chants about George Best or unemployment, or Neville's sexual proclivity. I know one can easily build a case for any kind of offensive chanting to be considered the 'wrong thing to do', but Im very comfortable with the line I've chosen to draw.

Yeah, I think they are. I also don't have a problem with songs about incest, as in the 'Gary Nevile sha*s his ma etc...'

They started it yesterday and got what they deserved. I can't abide racist chanting, and violence is obviously unacceptable, but nasty 'heritage' chants give spice to the occasion. I don't care what people think, I enjoy it for what it is. Football match chanting is rarely polite, and always intimadatory, provocative and offensive. It's part of the tribalsism that makes the game what it is. If you take the nasty edge out of terrace behaviour you'll turn the game into a church service. There is a line, and racism is it, but after that I largely don't give a f*ck.

Of course we can't be sure if Rick Parry as at fault for things we perceive haven't gone right at the club. Just as it might be unfair to blame Tony Blair for what's not right with the NHS, but I'm afraid that's the way the world works. The buck stops with the man/men at the top. They take the jobs, the pay, the kudos, so they take the blame. Facts remain that LFC stated that amongst it's immediate aims were the building of a new stadium and raising major new investment for the club. Facts show that neither of those pivotal projects have come to fruition, depsite a now very generous timescale. We can blame world economic factors, New Labour or the weather, but those that take on the direct responsibility for achieving these stated goals are the men at the top of LFC. Not saying they should be sacked or executed for these 'crimes' but to made accountable for them, and to be considered fair game for criticism. FWIW, I don't see how Rick Parry can be blamed for the Cisse fee. You pays ya money and takes ya chances in the transfer market. He can be 'blamed' for backing a manager, but I can't see that as an 'offence' worthy of criticism.

Ferguson made a good point at his press conference yesterday about how fortunate we've been with injuries this season. We've been as lucky this term as we were unlucky last. I think people are enjoying a false sense of security at the moment, and think the squad is stronger than it is. Our first 11, or 13, is very strong, but if we pick up injuries to our key players we will look a much more fragile proposition. Midfield is the key. We rely enormously on Gerrard and Alonso, and increasingly on Kewell. With these 3 fit and on song we have the basis of the country's best midfield, and that is why we are playing title winning football. If we want to sustain that we have to have the ability to cover the loss of 2 of these 3 very well. I think we don't just need a good right winger, we need a 'world class' one who we'll quickly come to see as signifcant a player as the 3 previously mentioned. We could then lose 1 or 2 of our current 'big 3' to injury, knowing we'd stil be able to put 2 really top midfielders out.

It's a high risk strategy because it surrenders control of a situation to a range of external forces. If we're genuinely laid back about who we sign and couldn't give a f*ck whether it's any one of, say 5 or 6, right midfielders, then fair enough - let's make the selling clubs sweat it out and we'll buy from the first one to 'crack'. However, I refuse to believe Rafa doesn't have a very clear idea about exactly the player he wants for a position. If that's the case we need to be decisive and get that player. If we get him for a good price, like we did with Agger, all well and good, but sometimes decisiveness is called for, and we should not fear paying over the perceived value.

There were reports on the likelihood of those signings in the days leading up to them. The transfer window has 10 days 'til it closes. If LFC are to sign someone there will be anticpatory reports very soon now. Each day that passes with no news makes the chances of our signing someone less likely.

Great idea.

He's not evil, just very average at his job. One reason why foreign managers may not be in for a 16 year old is because it would be very difficult to persuade one to move abroad at that age. See how easy it is to decimate a sh*t argument ? Enjoy yours. If we ever have the misfortune to meet I'll buy you drink, ya nasty basterd.

He said we were interested in him. Priorities are a factor of how much he was given to spend by the board. Common sense tells me that any premiership manager would want a kid with Walcott's potential. Finance is the issue.

Yes, but plenty of people are saying that Walcott's price is just too risky. Who are they to say this when a successful football man like Wenger says otherwise. Of course it may be the case that Rafa says differently, but I won't be persuaded that the reason we don't have Walcott is that we simply don't have the clout in the transfer market. We've spent about 10-11m net since the summer. I think we should have had the dough to do this deal, and another if necessary, given potential sales.

Yep. They will be beaten. The key will be us showing them as little respect as possible.

I guarantee you it will be this : ------------------Reina Finnan------Carra-----Hyypia--------Riise Ciisse-----Gerard----Sissoko----Alonso----Kewell --------------------Crouch All kinds of flexibility in that line - up.

I don't care what anyone says, I can't help thinking that it's a crying shame that we weren't able to compete financially for a player who a) could become one of the game's top performers, and b) supported Liverpool, and would probably have joined us had we matched Arsenal's bid. People can debate whether or not Walcott will be 'worth it' all day long, but the fact remains was that 12m was the going rate and an accomplished football man like Arsene Wenger clearly thought he was well worth it.

Agreed. I think we need someone now, and I bloody well hope we get them. It's that simple.

I'd love to know what the reaction would have been had we just announced the signing of Walcott for 13m smackers down. You'd all have whooping with delight and not given a flying about how much the fee was. You'd have been saying it shows the ambition of the club and that it means business.

Wayne, if we want to just 'wait and see' why do we all bother even coming on a football forum? It is the one place where otherwise pointless speculation, on matters of no great import to the world, makes sense. Let's not wonder, to each other, if Liverpool might beat the Mancs, or what team Rafa will pick, or whether or not we'll win the league. Let's just wait and see. Of course we can trust Rafa to spend wisely and act in the clubs best interests. That doesn't need re-stating. It is reasonable to pose the question about whether or not we'll be successful in our stated transfer aims, and the factors that might affect that success (of which money is a major one). The conjecture that we might 'miss out' again on a RW is not wild. We are 11 days from the windows close, and time is clearly running out. We had these debates in the summer, and the concerns of some of us that the 'clock was ticking' proved entirely correct. It's not fair just to brush people off with 'nobody knows what's going on so just shut up about it'. I'd happily wait 'til the summer but it's people in the club who raise expectations. Rafa, Parry and even Gerrard have spoken often about how hopeful they are of us bringing in significant players in January. What did Gerrard say, with that knowing look, only weeks ago, about how excited he was at the players he knew the club would be bringing in ?

There was plenty of specualtion and quotes linking us to Xabi for weks before he signed.

I think Rafa's being unfair on a 16 year old boy to imply that he should be holding his nerve. There's an enourmous amount of money riding on this transfer. If LFC seriously expect that Southampton are going to allow themselves to lose £9m+ just because Walcott happens to support LFC, in a market where everyone and his dog wants the player, then they are being very naiive. Walcott is worth 12m+. That is a fact that the market is dictating. Liverpool are trying to get a £12m asset for £3m. Very clever if you can get away with it, but it was never going to happen. Too many people standing to lose too much money, and we expect a 16 year old kid to stand up to that pressure ?

That's just not the point.

When was the last time LFC signed a significant player 'out of the blue ' with absolutely no pre-speculation in the press ? Lack of links in the press is a pretty good guide to go by. Doesn't mean we won't sign somebody, but if a transfer was imminent (and it has to happen within the next 11 days ) you'd normally expect the press to be getting a sniff of it by now. We'll never know, but you do wonder....

Yes they do work like that. Just because the funds aren't all paid and received at once it doesn't mean clubs don't calculate their budgets in this way. The calculation is far from meaningless. I agree with you. It is looking less likely, by the day, that we will buy a right sided player this transfer window. In fact I would now say the odds are that we won't.

No need to worry boys, we're winning this one too.

I wonder how many on this forum will get that particular gem.