Puskas

No real mention of him anywhere in the press after the Bolton game, where he was - once again - very good indeed. Was that his second start in the Premier League? You wouldn't have thought so. Whisper it quietly - I think he's better than Gerrard was at the same age...

Bascombe has no credibility. He was the one who said we'd miss all our major targets and end up with Forlan last summer. And what happened? We bought Torres. How right did he get that one? And now we're supposed to believe he has some kind of 'inside line'? Give me a break. He may have had sources within LFC once. No longer. Now he gets paid to 'write' for a s***ty rag, and his end product reflects this. Both sides of the issue have come out and said it was a misunderstanding which has been blown up out of all proportion (mostly by people trying to sell newspapers and tabloids, incidentally). The only thing that surprises me is that anyone intelligent would give any credence whatsoever to anything written in a tabloid.

I have no problems with Riise as our third choice left back.

Mooks, the first rule is "don't believe everything you read in newspapers". The second rule is "don't believe everything you read in newspapers". Direct quotes are about the only thing you can give credence to and you even have to be careful with these, because newspapers often don't give the whole quote and will leave out the bits that don't conform with whatever agenda they think will best sell more newspapers. Hicks has (apparently!) come out and said it was "just a misunderstanding" that was "blown up out of all proportion" and he has "no problem with Rafa" and also has no intention of selling his share of the club. Misunderstandings can happen, especially when the parties are separated by time, distance and language. Blowing things up out of all proportion helps sell newspapers, and gives some internet warriors a chance to 'impress' everyone with exactly how alarmist they can be. It very much looks to me like this was a storm in a teacup - like I said in my very first contribution to this thread around 80 pages ago. I may still be proven wrong on this, but to be honest I seriously doubt it. Common sense will prevail, Rafa will stay and stay happy, and Bascombe's credibility will start digging, having already hit rock bottom last summer with the 'Forlan' episode.

There was an original design for a (pretty soulless) new 'bowl' stadium done by a Liverpool firm (I think). Gillett and Hicks ripped it up and commissioned the new design from a US based firm. That's probably where the 'two designs' talk has come from - i.e. it's the press trying to find non-existent differences between the owners (again).

I don't think Gerrard and Mascherano are the most balanced central midfield either. Although I wouldn't get in a blue funk to see them lining up there. I would expect the opposition - if half decent - to get a few more chances than usual, because Mascherano (good as he is) can't be everywhere at once. I agree with a few people who have said that Gerrard is not really a central midfielder in a 442 - the only time I'd like to see him there is against the very weakest opposition, where we don't really have to worry about defensive cover. And if he's going to play in the middle I'd pick Alonso as the first choice to play next to him (although Lucas is climbing the rankings). I think Mascherano and Alonso is currently our best central midfield combination - if Lucas keeps developing this might change.

Who are you and what do you want? Seriously, they teach you all these rules like 'i before e, except after c'. Apart from the exceptions. Like weird. And heir. And their. And science. It's not wonder foreigners (another one!!) have a surfeit (aaaagh!) of trouble with efficiently (gah!) learning this bloody language.

I'm just an honorary Hungarian, I only live here But yes, I admit I am very interested in seeing how the Hungarian youngsters get on.

The reserves beat Man City 3:2 on Tuesday and young Kristian Nemeth scored two on his reserves debut. He could have had a hat trick - he hit a post and missed a one-on-one - and showed some very neat touches. A very promising start from the 18 year old. He kind of reminds me of someone in the way he plays, although I will leave that comparison for later (let's not apply too much hype yet!). Another of our Hungarian prospects - Peter Gulacsi - also played his first game for the reserves in goal and also did pretty well (he wasn't to blame for either goal conceded at least!). The highlights are available if you have a season ticket on liverpoolfc.tv. Nemeth is pronounced 'Naymet' and Gulacsi is pronounced 'Goolachi' - just a note for the liverpoolfc.tv commentators

It could be that the owners have more important issues (for them) to deal with over the next few weeks, with the credit crunch in the States at the top of the list. They both own multiple businesses, we can't expect them to come running over to the UK every time we 'need' them*. 'Free' transfers still cost wages - usually a lot of wages to compensate for the 'free' bit. The wage bill is the biggest cost at the club, so even free transfers still need to be planned and budgeted for properly. *And yes, I agree with those that have said that there should be someone in charge over here so we don't need the owners' direct involvement - or so much of it. Let's hope that this will also get resolved in December.

It's a subliminal message: "Pressure's On, Rafa. The Owners."

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Sure, but my point was addressing Knox's "minimum acceptable effort [time and money]/maximum gain". I don't see revolutionising the stadium plans and spending 7 years building the stadium and revitalising the club as 'minimum acceptable effort in time and money'. I think it's a pretty substantial effort. Yes, they may eventually make money, and they may eventually sell the club, but they will have spent a considerable amount of time and money doing so and delivered a world class stadium in the meantime thank you very much. They need to ensure the team remains competitive as well. Turmoil and changing managers (plus payoffs) would appear to me to be the very last thing the owners would actually want right now if their main motivation is making money.

I don't buy this at all. Sports clubs don't give good returns. Most struggle to break even. Hicks hasn't made his money from his sports interests. And where's the 'maximum gain' in a club that badly needs a new stadium, and lots of investment and time required to get there? They'll need 10 or 15 years just to pay back the stadium borrowing. I don't see any gains there at all until that's been paid back. Even selling the club on would probably only break them even. The big money will come in once the stadium is paid for and the commercial side of the club has been revamped. And why would the owners rip up the old stadium designs and come up with a new one with the Kop as it's centerpiece if they wanted 'minimum acceptable effort'? This argument doesn't make any sense at all to me. If they were in it for minimum effort they would have taken the old design with planning permission already in place and said 'jobs a good un'. It's not even close to being plausible, sorry. The Times article that says that Rafa overstepped his bounds by personally negotiating a fee for Masch without the say-so of Parry or the owners is the closest thing to a plausible explanation for the current situation I've heard yet - and even that I'm taking with a large pinch of salt as it's once again press speculation.

BBC quoting the echo 'reconciliation' article now as well

I've never ever seen one news outlet spouting crap and all the others following suit. No-sirree-bob. Never.

When he's proven to be talking b******s, it will be a 'last minute reprieve'. Cue another article about how close he was to getting the (imaginary) sack, saved only by last minute fence building and the mercy of the owners. I can just about script it: RAFA GETS LAST MINUTE REPRIEVE By Baz Criscombe, World of the News It emerged today that Rafa Benitez (pictured looking worried, right) has earned a last minute reprieve from the sack. As exclusively revealed in these pages, Gillett and Hicks, the American owners of England's most successful club, arrived in Liverpool with every intention of showing Benitez the Anfield door, but a last ditch attempt at reconciliation by the beleaguered boss proved to be successful. The owners made it clear that they are using baseball's "three strikes and you're out" policy, with Rafa having struck out twice already and that he is now on his last chance and must remain on his best behavior for now on. During the meeting the owners also approved the sale of Jon Arne Riise to Aston Villa, causing mass celebration on the YNWA supporters forum, with the exception of Kaizer who has gone into therapy for depression. Blah blah etc

I don't understand where this argument comes from - for a couple of reasons. Firstly, there are plenty of businesses where you are likely to get a good return on your investment and sports clubs do not generally number among these businesses, even successful clubs like Liverpool. Secondly, the owners are planning to build a very large, very expensive new stadium. The money to do this needs to be borrowed and then paid back once the stadium is built and running. We're talking roughly 15 years here, if not more. That's not a short term plan. So - unless you're suggesting that the owners are going to renege on their plan to build the stadium I can't see where you're coming from.

This whole thread is pretty embarrassing.

Here's the full text: Rafa Benitez ready to offer olive branch to Liverpool FC owners Nov 26 2007 Tony Barrett Tom Hicks, Liverpool FC co-owner, walks past a picture of Rafa Benitez at Anfield RAFA BENITEZ is ready to hold out an olive branch to Liverpool’s owners – but his gesture of reconciliation may have come too late to save his job. Though sources close to Tom Hicks and George Gillett insist no decision has been made to sack Benitez, the Americans have refused to deny speculation it is only a matter of time before the manager is forced out. Despite the pressure , Benitez is still planning for the future and remains hopeful of landing the league title he knows Liverpool. A source close to Benitez said: “Rafa loves it at Liverpool. He loves the people of the city, he loves the fans and he loves the club. All he wants is what’s best for the fans - he gets frustrated when he feels he’s not able to do that. “But he is happy with Tom and George owning the club and he has enjoyed working with them since he came and he has no problem working with Rick (Parry) – all he wants is to be able to continue the job that he’s started so he can continue improving the squad in a bid to deliver the title he knows Tom, George and Rick want just as badly as he does. “The manager has got a few transfers that he wants to get done, one in January and two Bosmans in the summer but it looks like he is going to miss out on the first one now. “That frustrated him because the first one was a centre half, a position he feels we really need back-up in. The frustration stems from the fact that communication has been so difficult with everyone being so far apart and in different time zones. But the fans should be reassured Rafa has no plans of walking away. He loves it here and his family are settled on Merseyside. “He always describes his children as ‘Scousers’ and that makes him really proud. And the fact that the fans have backed him so much only makes him want success even more for them. Even when he guided Valencia to their first Spanish league title in 31 years their fans did not sing his name but the Liverpool fans sing it every single game. “Rafa only wants to work for Liverpool. It wasn’t that long ago that Rafa was thanking Tom, George and Rick for the work that they had done to bring Fernando Torres to Liverpool. He is still grateful for that and hopes that there has been no lasting damage done.” “He is hoping this situation can be resolved.In a statement Hicks and Gillett said: “Despite speculation in Sunday’s newspapers, there is nothing new to say. We had a good win yesterday and we have got some very important games coming up. “Both of us, together with chief executive Rick Parry, plan to meet with Rafa when we come over mid-December to make decisions on the team’s requirements at that time.”

A few people had pointed out that the bookies had stopped taking bets on the next manager to go and others leapt to the conclusion that it would be Rafa. Now that it's proven to be Davies who caused the bookies to stop taking bets, it's one less thing to be concerned about.

A positive news story, might cheer you up a bit: Rafa ready to offer an olive branch to owners

Which also explains why the bookies had suspended betting on the 'next manager to go'. What are the odds on a bit of calm descending now?

There does seem to be a lot of uninformed speculation and 'worse case' panic going on. I agree with fyds, I think a lot of this is just a storm in a teacup. At the moment all we actually know is that there's been a disagreement about when the funding will be decided for the January transfer window. Rafa wants to get on with it, my own uninformed speculation is that the owners want to see if we're still in Champions League or not before agreeing a budget, which makes financial sense (although not much footballing sense). A 'last minute' decision on funds would make any trades in January a bit of scramble, and may mean us losing out on our preferred targets. On the other hand, it may not. I can understand that Rafa would prefer to get this sorted out sooner rather than later, but I can also understand the position that we need to know where we stand before committing large sums of money on new players. Personally I'm with Rafa, I'd like to see us get on with it. The financial climate in the US is not good however, and we may have to accept the reality that there won't be much cash available in January. No-one has said (yet) that Rafa can't buy any players - although that may turn out to be the case. At the end of the day, if we fail to either buy or sell any players in January it's not a complete disaster - the squad we have looks to be strong enough to challenge and the only really obvious weakness we have is a lack of cover at center half. So far the new owners have made a pretty good impression - on me at least. They have ripped up the old stadium plans and commissioned a fantastic new stadium design with the Kop as it's centerpiece - and with a greater capacity. They have broken our transfer record and bought a truly world class striker for us. The only point of disagreement has been the timing of the release of funds, which I understand was the issue in the summer and is now the issue again. As was mentioned earlier, Bascombe was the one who was reporting that we would miss out on our major targets and end up with Forlan. And what happened? We bought Torres. Bascombe's credibility is now nil as far as I'm concerned. I also have to laugh at Rafa. He never even so much as cracks a smile when we score and has this big 'unemotional' thing going on during the match. But muck around with his plans for transfers and that latin temperament boils over and he goes hopping mad.

The 'club' did say something yesterday. Rafa said it was just a misunderstanding and nothing serious. The rest is just tabloid-fuelled speculation causing a herd mentality panic. Before you know it, there'll be a run on the bank.