Malcolm X

You will never rest until you see Rafa leave will you?

But the problem my friend is that Rafa only found out that he had no additional cash after he had sold Arbeloa and Alonso.

Another factor why they are able to generate higher fees is that they do not need to sell to buy. We on the other hand do which is why we can not negotiate higher fees. Alonso was the only exception.

It is futile pointing that out. Some people on here would hold Rafa responsible for us not winning the league for each of the last 20 years.

"We have got a really good first XI but not much beyond that. We will need serious investment to make us League Champions" or words to that effect.

15 points behind them tells me that it was a mountain. Do you know that in his second season, Rafa had overtaken 'The Invincibles' finishing a full 15 points ahead of them?

Yes we did. If we hadn't c*cked up against Lyon in the 93rd minute then the Fiorentia game would not have been a meaningless game.

Yes it f*cking should. Had Hyppia been playing in the CL in place of the Greek we would still be in the competition.

Would you care to add what they spent before Rafa arrived or will you ignore that because it completely gazumps your argument?

Which will go towards paying our debt.

Signing a crocked player to replace one of the best midfielders we have ever had at this club is always going to have an impact. The owner's were not responsible for that and Rafa rightly has to take full blame for that. However, I am willing to cut him some slack on the basis that the majority of the cash generated from sales completely disappeared. Losing Torres, Gerrard Riera, Benayoun and Agger to injury for significant parts of the season together with having crucial decisions go against us has had as big an impact on our results as the above. Rafa can not be blamed for this as he had absolutely no control over these areas.

No, not laying the blame elsewhere more a case of apportioning the blame instead of laying it solely at the manager's feet which some people on here are quite happy to do. I don't absolve Rafa of any blame as I have said many a time before that he has made mistakes and can not get away scot free. But there are other factors just as culpable as Rafa for our current form.

Whatever your position is now and was three months ago.

Did you have the same opinion last season as well say around January time?

Have you ever considered the fact that Chelsea's squad was/is infinitely stronger than ours? It is debatable whether Adebayor weakened Arsenal as never really contributed much to them on a consistent basis. He didnt get his nickname 'Adebarndoor' for no reason.

Unlike some people on here I wasnt trying to say that it is Rafa's mistakes that have put us in this current situation and that he has made more mistakes than other managers. I accept he has made mistakes, for example, on the face of it the team he put out against Portsmouth was inexcusable. Then again Rafa probably knew who was fully fit and may be decided that some players were not worth the risk. In any event that team he put out against Portsmouth should have won. A significant proportion of our current position has been due to factors outside Rafa's control. Again unfortunately most people on here are not willing to accept that.

That is probably very close to the mark. As I said Rafa is not completely blameless in this situation but some people continue to use the summer of 2008 as the reason why Alonso left.

I'll rephrase my original point, if Rafa had been given the £20 million transfer budget, plus money from the sale of Keane, Alonso and Aberloa then we would not have been in this mess.

Yes of course they will because the Spanish players at least believe in him. He is the reason they joined in the first place. They have seen a lot of good over the last 3-4 seasons to believe that the current run is an aberration. However, the caveat to this is that if they believe that our current run is a sign of things to come beyond the current season, then they might end up moving anyway.

Completely agree. I have always been a fan of Alonso from the day we signed him. I remember saying to a mate of mine that Alonso was really good before he had even kicked a ball. However, when I saw him in his first game against Bolton, he was much better than I originally thought. A class class player and one of the key reasons why we won the CL in 2005. However, it irks me how quickly people ignore how much of a c*ck Alonso was this season for 'forcing' his move to Real Madrid. I will also add that had Rafa been able to spend that Alonso money then we would not have been in this mess.

They wont follow him out of the door but their decision to stay may depend on who his replacement is.

The thing is we got in this bad run through a combination of: 1. injuries to key players and lack of depth, 2. key decisions not going against, 3. questionable decisions by Rafa re team selection 4. our defenders forgetting how to defend 5. key players being off form or not being arsed. I don't think any of the above are mutually exclusive as they are all inter-linked and all of the above need to improve for us to turn this around. 1, 2 & 4 have been the biggest factors but if I am honest 3 has cost us around 4-5 points in the league.

Again not sure how much Aberloa, Alonso, Reira and Reina contributed to that winning run. However, if people want to overstate the importance of the likes of Alonso and Aberloa to Spain winning the European Championship, then we can also say that losing Alonso and Aberloa this summer was obviously going to have as big an impact on our form this season. Maybe not the extent we currently find ourselves in, but still a significant impact.

That is a bit over the top. Only one of our five Spanish players was a consistent fixture in that Spanish team that won the European Championship.

Agree. He makes some decent points but the problem with Tomkins is that he tries to make things sound positive by making comparisons to Utd and Chelsea. Not sure what the f*ck that has got to do with our current form. I think he needs to realise that there is nothing wrong with saying Rafa has made some mistakes this season and has contributed to our current woeful form. However, he is NOT the sole reason why we are in this current mess.