alias75

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We wouldnt need to sell Riise. The fee being talked about for Sissoko is around 7-8 million and Carson maybe 8 million. Theres also Guthrie who i reckon we could get 2-3 million for. Still think Riise could do a job here.

Yep he could be used to lead the line and not have to play as a 2nd striker, where his touch and awareness isnt good enough. At the moment i dont have a huge problem with us playing Torres on his own up front, because the other strikers we have havent delivered, that extra man in midfield couldn't do much worse and we have 2 or 3 players like Gerrard, Benayoun, Babel that have an eye for goal.

Would be a typical Rafa signing i.e someone that no ones thought of until it almost happens. Looking at where he plays it would make sense, id rate him as a left footed Benayoun in terms of quality too so with Harry struggling to hit top form theres competition for the left side plus he can play as a support striker. Maybe this means a striker (Crouch) is off in January and this guy covers the left and 2nd striker positions, plus of course it frees Babel up to cover the striker position.

Its all relative though 20 million plus looked like a lot of money for Rooney not long ago, but thats money well spent now, if we sign him what you'll have is someone that could be part of the first team for the next 5-6 years performing to a very high level on a consistent basis. We dont know the exact transfer fee either, when we first took the loan it was widely reported to be 10 million that raised to 17 million then some said that included wages, others have said its 17 million that will be paid over 5 years. whichever way i look at it i just think it would be madness to let slip one of the best young midfielders in the world, someone that would be a fixture in our side for foreseeable future. With him Alonso, Lucas and Gerrard we wouldnt need to worry about central midfield for the next 5 years.

Hes a diver... http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kDtPPfotPLs&...feature=related

Ok but we know if the money's there we'll be signing him, if we dont sign him then one of the following is true.. 1. We dont have enough money to sign him 2. G+H won't give Rafa the money to sign him Both those scenarios are pretty worrying. And surely thats much more important that whether or not the money can be spent better. Rafa is the manager he makes the footballing decisions, its then up to G+H to support those decisions (within reason of course) at the moment, they've talked a lot about wanting the best and backing Rafa, but if we lose Mascherano i think the bigger picture is Rafa will walk.

Thought O'Neil was renting Zidanes gaff?

But you'd probably have to find 2 players for 17 million a defensive midfieder and a top quality wide right player. Its not a strawman argument, we know Rafa wants Mascherano we know Mascherano wants to come here, so in Rafa's plan its not an issue of whether he can get better for the money, surely by saying he wants Mascherano hes already made the judgment that the money is well spent. the question now is are G+H going to support the manager over footballing matters or not? another thing to consider here is if G+H tell Rafa he can't have the money for Mascherano theres a decent chance we'll not only lose the best defensive midfielder in Europe but also the best manager we've had for ages.

Not sure i understand that, everyone knows we need better attacking players especially out wide, signing Maschernao permanently allows Gerrard to play wide right. If we dont sign Maschernano we still probably need a new defensive midfielder because none of the others we have except Sissoko are ball winning midfielders. So if we dont sign Mascherano we probably need a new defensive midfielder and a world class right sided player (assuming Stevie plays almost exclusively in the middle) can you do that for 17 million? Thats irrelevant anyway because the problem here is Rafa wants the player and the player wants to stay so whether the money can be spent elsewhere isnt the issue unless you trust G+H and Parry over Rafa when it comes to footballing matters and whats best for the team.

Torres, Hyppia, Gerrard, Mascherano, Reina have all been very good this season so far...

Thats exactly right, i could understand it if Rafa thought he could get another defensive midfield player in for a lot less that could do a good job but hes said on several occasions how important Mascherano is to the team. So the manager wants the player, the player wants to stay, if it doesnt happen it can only be because G+H dont release the funds to complete the deal. This is a key time for G+H they can say whatever they like in the media but sooner or later they have to back those words up with actions, if they dont soon we'll know exactly where we stand, we'll have owners that promised to build a new stadium and allow us to compete for the best players in the world and will have gone back on at least 1 of those promises. If they think we can challenge for the title of even qualify for the CL on the cheap they're in for a big surprise because even if we stand still for 1 season theres going to be 3 or 4 teams behind us that will spend big and we'll be in a big fight to even get top 4. They have to understand fast that the only way we can be successful off the pitch is if we have a team challenging on it.

We have a few young uns though, Anderson, Guthrie, Hamill by the time some of the players in the U18s are ready for the first team they'll probably be able to become British anyway

Who could you sign as an attacking midfielder from the right thats better than Gerrard for 17 million?

It could never happen now so we dont have to worry about it, the worse that could happen is a quota of EU players but that wouldnt affect us too much.

We dont know he wont do this because Alonso is obviously being eased back so he hasnt had them all 100% fit for a long time. But for a lot of fans thats the obvious way to fit 3 of our best players into the same team, and you could argue Gerrard is much more of an attacking threat in that formation anyway.

Our strongest 11 clearly has Alonso, Mascherano and Gerrard in it, people talk about us needing world class attacking players, Gerrard is that, but from the middle hes less effective and in a few games recently hes been much more withdrawn. Playing Gerrard as an attacking midfielder would save us the money which we could use to get Mascherano. I doubt you'd find any attacking midfielder of Gerrards ability for 17 million!

I agree with those that say we need attacking players more than anther defensive midfielder but my argument is this. If you sign Mascherano you have him Alonso and Lucas, Gerrard then becomes that top quality attacking midfielder on the right meaning theres one less attacking player you need to sign. Everyone agrees we need as many world class players as we can get, here we have one of the best (if not the best) defensive midfielders almost begging for us to sign him, the manager is on the record as saying how important he is so whats the problem? G+H cannot hide for much longer, not matter what they say in the media about being right behind Rafa and committed to helping us get the best possible team we can, sooner or later they're going to have to prove it. If they think they can get away with spending nothing and still getting CL football their kidding themselves. The teams above us are all spending money to improve and there are 4 or 5 teams below us spending large amounts of money to get into that top 4, if we try and do things on the cheap very quickly they'll own a team that isnt getting CL football and will probably lose the best manager its had for ages along with some very good players. We have players we can sell that wont affect the strength of the squad and will bring in over 20 million, so signing Mascherano still means there should be money there for more attacking players. Plus we have at least 2 strikers we could sell to help finance a replacement.

Still a profit on a player thats hardly figured this season. With all this Mascherano stuff today we should sell ASAP and get some money in to secure Masch. Wouldnt be surprised if theres a couple of teams in for him which may push his price up beyond 7 million. Hes still very young and im sure a lot of coaches think they can improve him.

Hopefully its just a matter of having to sell a few before we can commit the funds for Mascherano. Rafa's done a good job with the squad to the point of where even players that aren't good enough for us have still increased in value and are in demand. Carson 6-8 million Crouch 8-10 million Sissoko 8-10 million Guthrie 2-3 million? So we can raise 20 million plus by selling those 4 players, only Crouch would need to be replaced in the squad and for the short term we could use Babel as a striker. The problem could be a few of the clubs wanting those players may want to wait until the summer eg Villa with Carson so we aybe can't be definite until then. But G+H did state they'd back Rafa in the transefr market, so far our net spend is approximately what we've spent in other years. It makes sense to sell Sissoko if we are going to sign him so maybe thats whats holding things up.

If its 10 million then its even more worrying that Mascherano has to go public like this despite the manager saying he wants him. As for those comments by Le Tissier, its just another example of the double standards that are all over the media at the moment. Utd rotate and lose to West Ham we see nothing in the press about Ferguson's rotation. They conceded 2 goals from set pieces nothing in the media about how man to man marking is costing them goals. Ronaldo and Tevez have scored over 50% of their goals this season, no mention that their over reliant on these 2 players. Instead we get articles about how Liverpool are a 2 man team (at least thats 1 more than usual) and how rotation is the reason every time we get a poor result, im getting sick of it to be honest. Every top team has a holdng midfielder as you say in the last few season's Utd have spent plenty on this type of player, Carrick, Hargreaves, Anderson none of these score many goals or get many assists.

From what ive read its 17 million spread over 5 years, the worrying bit here is this is a world class player that the manager wants to sign, the player is saying he loves it here and wants to sign so why the problem? If G+H arent going to back Rafa on players he thinks are key and who openly say they want to be here whats the point of them being here? Hopefully its just a matter of Rafa having to sell a few before this can be finalised, but id like to think Mascherano would be told not to worry and once players like Sissoko are sold the funds are there to sign him. If it was a case of Rafa deciding the fee was too much and he could get someone else in etc.. then fair enough, but at the moment it looks like Rafa wants him here, Mascherano wants to be here and the only thing stopping it happening is the owners not giving it the green light. I agree if Rafa loses this player because G+H are hesitant then it could push hi over the edge (and maybe thats what they want)

Just think the earlier he knows what his future holds the better for him and his family (not sure if he has family with him) if we said to him now we will sign you but not until June/July then im sure that would be enough. But at moment he knows the manager wants him but the owners havent yet released the funds to buy him. If we're not going to be able to pay the 17 million then he has every right to know as early as possible so he can weigh up his other options.But if we dont sign him it will be another huge negative for G+H this is truly world class player, we need as many players of his quality as possible, the manager has said several times he wants to keep him so whats the problem?

Yeah hes being lined up as Insua's replacement in the first team for 2015