The tiredness argument

[RedHarvest]

Any irish reds see the Premiership last night? Giles, whose opinions I normally respect, took pains to ridicule this idea of tiredness citing his era of non squad rotation and a "just get on with it" attitude. This was echoed by the irritating Houghton. I've thought we've looked a pale and drained team the last few games - particularly Gerrard (by his standards). I've put our recent lull down to our punishing and unjust CL qualifying campaign.

I think the game is faster and more demanding these days and the Premiership is one of the mored physically demanding leagues in Europe.

Then again..maybe I'm looking too hard for excuses for gutlessness.

[Mike]

cl qualifiers were against poor sides. we only played 6.

i don't buy the tiredness argument at all. we'd normally play that many friendlies too.

[Armin_Tamzarian]

I definitely think we've looked tired, both physically and mentally.

 

I don't think the experiences of players who hung up their boots 20 or even 10 years ago are that relevant. The current game is so quick and puts such an emphasis on the expenditure of energy that its not possible to carry the same sorts of injuries and still perform.

 

Not only did we start our season earlier, we ended it later than other sides as well. Plus we were fighting for 4th place with so many injuries that we didn't rotate as often as we should.

 

As for the friendlies versus pre qualifiers argument, I don't agree with Mike. There was too much resting on the prequalifiers for our players to relax, we were limited in the number of subs so we couldnt spread the load as you normally would and the opposition was playing the European Champions and were consequently far more motivated than the average preseason fodder.

[stressederic]

I don't think we can overlook the possibility of the players having a slight European Cup Final hangover. There were plenty of fans who admitted to feeling out of sorts at the start of this season, I think its equally possible that some of the players might have as well.

 

Istanbul must have been totally physically and emotionally draining for the players despite the obvious jubilation and celebrations. Maybe that carried over into this season, and they're starting to feel the results a bit now.

[Mike]

it was only 4 more games than normal - we'd have had to have finished 2nd not to play one prequalifier.

we go knocked out of the league cup, we haven't played any fa cup replays...sorry...don't buy it at all.

[Herbie von Smalls]

jimmy armfield was talking about this during the 5live coverage of our match yesterday. he said that while players may be physically capable of playing two matches a week over the course of a season, one could not expect them to perform at the same high level throughout.

 

it's not just the physical exertions, but the level of concentration and the pressure to get results that prove draining.

[RedHarvest]

Theres also the draining effect of the WCC Japan trip.

I dont wholly subscribe to this idea but it's a little too easy to dismiss it entirely as Giles and Houghton smugly did.

[Mike]

if we came up short at the end of the season i'd maybe agree but we're only 2/3rds through

[abc]

Athletes nowadays use scientific methods to analyse their body and fitness levels. They have specialised training regimes to help them improve areas of their athleticism. In other words, a good percentage of footballers are about as fit as humanly possible.

 

Back in those days, by all accounts, you could have fatties who were getting pi$sed frequently, jokers that muck around at training during the week, yet still perform to a decent standard in the English game.

 

The English game is still very fast paced and technically it's getting better, due to the top foreigners who have come into the game over the past 10 years. The English game has grown, and is still growing in its reputation. IMHO, the Spanish league is still the best, but the premiership is a very very close second.

 

Back in their day, young foreign talent like Ronaldo, Essien and Alonso would have looked at the English game and said "not a chance in hell I'm going there".

 

Therefore, with all respect to the older generation of players, I think they should shut the f*ck up when there is talk of players tiring and how they used to be able to "get on with it".

[Atticus Finch]

if we came up short at the end of the season i'd maybe agree but we're only 2/3rds through

 

But we've already played more games this season than Spurs will have by the end of the season.

 

I think it is a factor. The early start to the season meant an earlier start to training and therefore less rest from the season before (which was elongated by Istanbul anyway).

 

We have also had extra games in Japan (plus the travelling) and against CSKA. After Japan we also also had to contend with the most crammed in Xmas fixture list yet - which is aimed at finishing the season earlier for WC preparation.

 

Finally Rafa has rotated far less than he did last season, which means certain key players are playing 95% of the matches.

 

All this has meant most of our first choice players have been playing every three/four days for months and that is bound to catch up with us eventually.

[Earl Hafler]

I don't think it's something anyone can ' buy ' or argue against. The lads are knackered, especially those that have also had International commitments. Some of our squad have had a 2-3 months off since the summer of 2003.

I'm convinced our key players are, mentally and physically, running on empty.

Edited February 12, 2006 by Big Stuff

[Foo]

Natural ups and downs shouldn't be too unexpected, come March and out we might be look better again.

Edited February 12, 2006 by Foo

[Paul B]

We can only ever see things from the filter of our own minds. You can never take perspective out of anything. This argument comes down to how fit the observer is and everything stems from that. If you are a chip-eating lazy-a*** who's idea of excercise is walking down stairs to get your breakfast, then the idea of people (gasp) running 9-11 kilometers a match is one that will make you faint and wonder how they can cope. If you are a fit, 25-year-old 2.25 marathon runner, then you'll think all footballers are puffs who need a kick up the a***. Having seen some of our past teams play on pitches that made yesterday's look like a perfectly manicured bowling green and played opposition off the park with a nonchalant disdain regardless of weather, suspensions, conditions or any other external factor, I think this argument is over elaborated. I'll believe it when Rafa Benitez himself mentions it. Until then, it's an excuse and in my opinion, a poor one that smacks of excusitis and feeble-mindedness.

[Stevie H]

jimmy armfield was talking about this during the 5live coverage of our match yesterday. he said that while players may be physically capable of playing two matches a week over the course of a season, one could not expect them to perform at the same high level throughout.

 

it's not just the physical exertions, but the level of concentration and the pressure to get results that prove draining.

 

i agree with that. the players know that they've already played more matches than spurs are going to play all season. that kind of thing must have a effect mentally.

[Paul B]

i agree with that. the players know that they've already played more matches than spurs are going to play all season. that kind of thing must have a effect mentally.

 

 

That's just soft.

[Stevie H]

That's just soft.

 

or human.

[Paul B]

or human.

 

 

No, soft.

[Stevie H]

No, soft.

 

or knackered.

[Paul B]

or knackered.

 

 

Come up with any excuse you like mate, I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's soft. Mentally soft and corrupting.

[CarraLegend]

i agree with that. the players know that they've already played more matches than spurs are going to play all season. that kind of thing must have a effect mentally.

 

Yep it should be a good thing mentally not a bad thing, i'll hazard a brave guess here and say most footballers love playing football so surely they'll enjoy it rather than moaning about Spurs having less games?

[Paul B]

Yep it should be a good thing mentally not a bad thing, i'll hazard a brave guess here and say most footballers love playing football so surely they'll enjoy it rather than moaning about Spurs having less games?

 

 

Flipping heck, he's come up with something I agree with! Nice one, CarraLegend.

[Stevie H]

Yep it should be a good thing mentally not a bad thing, i'll hazard a brave guess here and say most footballers love playing football so surely they'll enjoy it rather than moaning about Spurs having less games?

 

i don't think they'll be moaning. but we've played 42 or 43 games this season and it's not even mid-february. to believe that that isn't going to have some kind of an impact is daft.

[Paul B]

i don't think they'll be moaning. but we've played 42 or 43 games this season and it's not even mid-february. to believe that that isn't going to have some kind of an impact is daft.

 

 

Maybe they should go on strike for better conditions and pay if it's too tough?

[CarraLegend]

i don't think they'll be moaning. but we've played 42 or 43 games this season and it's not even mid-february. to believe that that isn't going to have some kind of an impact is daft.

 

Maybe at some point ,although it didnt seem to bother us in the treble season. Dont see how what Spurs have done will have any bad effect mentally other than give our players something to laugh at as they've lost to Grimsby and Leicester.

[realtarragona]

I think the players have looked tired recently but I don't know if that's because I've been expecting it to happen. As has been pointed out though, we've only really played four games more at the start of the season than normal. And they were against really poor opposition, in particular the first two. We also rotated a fair bit, using players like Potter, Whitbread, Zenden and Josemi in those matches. Plus they did replace normal pre-season friendlies. And I doubt that trip to Japan has really had that much of an affect to be honest.