Jump to content

Liverpool vs Sheff Utd, Sat 24 Oct 20.00h - Premier League


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 604
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Mason D’Etre Lee Mason discusses the meaning of life.

Four Webbings and a Urinal A panel of Liverpool fans watch back four classic Howard Webb refereeing performances, then discuss their thoughts in the toilet afterwards.

Posted Images

18 minutes ago, Flasher said:

Noticeable we didn't play a particulary high line in this game. 

One of the side effects of the 4-2-3-1 is it pushes players from the "3" into the space the FBs usually occupy in the 4-3-3. So not sure whether the line going back and the FBs playing a little deeper was deliberate, a side effect of the new system or (probably) a combination of the two.

Be interested to see if @Rory Fitzgerald has the average player position graphic to compare with the Arsenal or Chelsea games

Edited by Gethin
Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Earl Hafler said:

We started crossing from deeper in the second half

They'd obviously been working all week on that back 5 low block with the direct ball counter attack. 

Decent team, honourable manager. 

 

Wilder seems a genuinely top fella. Doesn't seem to get drawn into any s***house behaviour.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Gethin said:

One of the side effects of the 4-2-3-1 is it pushes players from the "3" into the space the FBs usually occupy in the 4-3-3. So not sure whether the line going back and the FBs playing a little deeper was deliberate, a side effect of the new system or (probably) a combination of the two.

Be interested to see if @Rory Fitzgerald has the average player position graphic to compare with the Arsenal or Chelsea games

I had a quick look mate, more so at the positions where the full backs received the ball in the Arsenal game vs Sheffield United game. There wasn't a big difference so I haven't pulled out those images. But here is the average position.

Very hard to read anything meaningful into it except that Jota and Salah were receiving the ball alot on the right, Firmino wasnt doing anything hugely different from the Arsenal game in terms of where he received it. Mane had 5 of his 59 (8%) touches in his own half vs Arsenal but against Sheff Utd it was 12 of 49 (24%), so getting it a bit deeper. Firmino had 8 touches in his own half in each game.

Touches in the box:

  • Mane - 11 vs Arsenal, 10 vs Sheff Utd (21 in total)
  • Firmino - 3 vs Arsenal, 6 vs Sheff Utd (9 in total)
  • Salah - 8 vs Arsenal, 14 vs Sheff Utd (22 in total)

I wasnt paying too much attention to the game in terms of tactics/shape etc but I'll definitely be paying more attention to see how we play when all 4 attackers are on the pitch and the propensity of Jota/Salah to receive on the right.

LFCARSSHU.png.147a01dcd47a27b06a7a6e32e2f43135.png

Edited by Rory Fitzgerald
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Cheers Rory - only real meaningful difference from the 4-3-3 is the FBs *very* slightly further back and no-one really doing Fabs DM role. My perception whilst watching was that the FBs weren't being as aggressive which appears not to be the case. Thanks for posting them

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 25/10/2020 at 12:06, Swipe said:

How arbitrary the whole thing is is infuriating. The starting point for Coote in the derby for the Hendo goal was clearly that he was giving offside and just needed to keep going with the lines until he got something that agreed enough with him. The spirit of the game is in tatters if that’s how it’s going to be. Not to mention the whole point of clear and obvious. 

I think one of the weirdest things about it was that given how amazingly marginal it was, he actually spent very little time looking at it - didn't even really seem to bother with zooming in for a close up of it, judging by the footage on TV.

We've certainly seen less marginal calls pored over for a lot longer by VAR.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Apart from the 'protocol' of using the first frame when the ball has left the foot - which clearly in this instance undermined any claim of millimetre levels of accuracy in the process, the other factor I haven't seen in play in this is the selection of Mina's foot as the rearmost point of a defender; they use the 'centre of gravity' process to determine where the vertical line from Mane's shirt sleeve would cross the ground, (which again introduces marginal errors), but no similar analysis was applied to Keane's backside which on a simple look could as easily push the defensive line back a fraction. Moreover, they probably couldn't do that calculation, because you can't see Keane's feet on the freeze frame, needed to decide where the vertical meets the ground - if that is the case, then the actual offside line was indeterminable, and the one they went with was, by definition, an arbitrary choice.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Tommok said:

I think one of the weirdest things about it was that given how amazingly marginal it was, he actually spent very little time looking at it - didn't even really seem to bother with zooming in for a close up of it, judging by the footage on TV.

We've certainly seen less marginal calls pored over for a lot longer by VAR.

The problem is that they're just lying about it afterwards, there is no way that they're even reviewing these decisions 

 

No transparency whatsoever

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, JRC said:

Apart from the 'protocol' of using the first frame when the ball has left the foot - which clearly in this instance undermined any claim of millimetre levels of accuracy in the process, the other factor I haven't seen in play in this is the selection of Mina's foot as the rearmost point of a defender; they use the 'centre of gravity' process to determine where the vertical line from Mane's shirt sleeve would cross the ground, (which again introduces marginal errors), but no similar analysis was applied to Keane's backside which on a simple look could as easily push the defensive line back a fraction. Moreover, they probably couldn't do that calculation, because you can't see Keane's feet on the freeze frame, needed to decide where the vertical meets the ground - if that is the case, then the actual offside line was indeterminable, and the one they went with was, by definition, an arbitrary choice.

The current practice of an assistant delaying the use of his flag even if the forward was a yard offside and not reviewing effectively instances like the Maguire grapple and the Pickford challenge during the game is an utter shambles without any convincing explanation.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, charlie clown said:

It's a ridiculous rule that one (the late signalling for offside). I can see no benefit from it whatsoever and plenty of downsides. Madness. 

the late offside signal is so that play still continues, a goal may be scored, which a linesman may have erroneously ruled out when the VAR gets his fancy set square out and draws his lines on your telly.

However, it has gone a bit too far - Salah was miles offside on one at the weekend, sprints through on goal (fecked the 1v1 up) and might pull a hamstring on an unnecessary chase.

It's unsatisfactory but i get it

VVD got injured in an offside moment but that was so marginal you don't want him putting his flag up in those moments - let play continue and then check it.

15 minutes ago, Hassony said:

As @Cobs has often said in the past, I think they should introduce an appeal system that forces the idiot in the middle to go and check the monitor himself

and he should then explain himself to the watching audience of what he's decided.

and yes he's going to get booed for it, when crowds, return - so what?

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Cobs said:

the late offside signal is so that play still continues, a goal may be scored, which a linesman may have erroneously ruled out when the VAR gets his fancy set square out and draws his lines on your telly.

However, it has gone a bit too far - Salah was miles offside on one at the weekend, sprints through on goal (fecked the 1v1 up) and might pull a hamstring on an unnecessary chase.

It's unsatisfactory but i get it

VVD got injured in an offside moment but that was so marginal you don't want him putting his flag up in those moments - let play continue and then check it.

This is my main gripe with it

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah but I think the potential cost to the players outweighs that (especially given how utterly awful the application of VAR is proving to be). The energy wasted, the risk of injury, the psychological energy that it expends. It must be utterly draining for the players.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, charlie clown said:

Yeah but I think the potential cost to the players outweighs that (especially given how utterly awful the application of VAR is proving to be). The energy wasted, the risk of injury, the psychological energy that it expends. It must be utterly draining for the players.

meh - they're still only playing football

risk of injury is the concern. I don't see why when a player is blatantly offside a lino can't flag it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Cobs said:

and he should then explain himself to the watching audience of what he's decided.

and yes he's going to get booed for it, when crowds, return - so what?

I keep banging this drum but... the refs should have a Monday lunchtime press conference each week talking through the weekend's debateable decisions.  They get a chance to put their side, fans learn a bit extra and the TV companies & media will love it because it extends the life span of the weekend games.  And, crucially, we as fans get to know whether things are going to improve.

Mistakes happen and decisions are made incorrectly - we all do it at work.  But if Riley stands there and says "yes, this was wrong but I've reminded all the refs today what the rule is" or even "this ref is really good but we're resting him while he's on a refresher course" then that would only be a positive thing.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Cam said:

I keep banging this drum but... the refs should have a Monday lunchtime press conference each week talking through the weekend's debateable decisions.  

Idea for a tv show "Out of your hole" with Graham Poll

 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Cobs said:

Idea for a tv show "Out of your hole" with Graham Poll

 

'Now is the Winter of our discontent'

Kop favourite Jeff discusses the weekend's contentious refereeing decisions.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Mason's Lodge

Lee Mason & Stephen Lodge explain why Man Utd got yet another penalty decision in their favour this weekend and look back at a classic call that went Utd's way under Ferguson

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...