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WTF is going on in the world

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Eh?

To me, not a racist if that helps, we know the MO of Isis and we can at least hope to combat it in Europe via intelligence. If it is some madman they have had no contact with but inspired, neutralising that is more difficult.

It makes a massive difference to the Muslims in the west who are being targeted by racist attacks

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It makes a massive difference to the Muslims in the west who are being targeted by racist attacks

Racists targeting Muslims will take his name being Mohamed as proof conclusive. Conclusive of what will not really matter much.

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Racists attacking Mulslims in the west dont need the activity in Nice as an excuse, they will attack/would have attacked anyway because they are racist scum. Those f***wits don't need an excuse.

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Aye. Bit weird that your post was met with such disapproval.

 

Talking ( or at least attempting to ) would be far better than doing f*** all.

This article is right. We are going to end having to talk to them in the end so why not do it now?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/01/talk-to-isis-jihadis-ira-negotiate-military-political-solution

 

 

I am not suggesting for a moment that we should sit down with Baghdadi now and try to negotiate, even if he were prepared to sit down with us. But we should do what we did in all previous conflicts: open a quiet channel that will allow us to begin negotiations once both sides have come to the realisation that there is no military solution. The British government opened a secret channel to the IRA in 1972, but negotiations did not begin until 20 years later. At some stage it will become apparent that we can’t wipe out the idea of jihadism militarily even if we destroy Isis and al-Qaida. We then need to be ready to talk.

 

People suggest that there is nothing to talk to Isis about. But it is important to understand that talking to terrorists is not the same as agreeing with them. The British would never have discussed a united Ireland at the barrel of a gun against the wishes of the majority in Northern Ireland. But when we sat down with the IRA, its leaders wanted to talk about legitimate subjects like power-sharing and human rights. The same will be true of Isis. No one is going to talk to them about a universal caliphate, but we can talk about Sunni grievances and a way of ending violence.

Edited by Redray

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Why is the IRA are being compared to ISIS? Just because they were a terrorist organisation? That is where it ends. Their aims were much more legitimate than any claim ISIS make. Is there any request that ISIS can make that could lead to an agreement? They want to form a new state from land taken from two countries (for now). They want to impose dictatorship on millions. They want to openly discriminate against various factions of society. They are genocidal. These are not their tactics to achieve their goal, but how they want the Caliphate to operate.

Edited by Nerik

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I'm not saying it's the same situation but what harm is there just trying to fid out what they want. Even if that process only causes a lull in things. Do we really know what they want?

This is where I was after the Paris attacks. Got to do something radically different. There's no point in posturing and just saying they are the "other". Find out what they want. These things are often grounded in the geopolitical anyway so we can't just say they are just going to kill anyone who disagrees with them.

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Why is the IRA are being compared to ISIS? Just because they were a terrorist organisation? That is where it ends. Their aims were much more legitimate than any claim ISIS make. Is there any request that ISIS can make that could lead to an agreement? They want to form a new state from land taken from two countries (for now). They want to impose dictatorship on millions. They want to openly discriminate against various factions of society. They are genocidal. These are not their tactics to achieve their goal, but how they want the Caliphate to operate.

I'm with you totally on that. There is absolutely no point in negotiation.

 

Their goal is absolute victory and dominance. It is to have an empire that advocates indiscriminate slaughter and destruction and wholesale slavery and complete subjugation of women. Wholesale executions for the slightest and most random of offenses, not to mention the complete removal of all homosexuals by execution.

 

There is no middle ground with fanatics like this.

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Their goal is absolute victory and dominance. It is to have an empire that advocates indiscriminate slaughter and destruction and wholesale slavery and complete subjugation of women. Wholesale executions for the slightest and most random of offenses, not to mention the complete removal of all homosexuals by execution.

 

.

Enough about the republicans, what about ISIS?

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So what's to be done?

 

Was watching Ross Kemp with the Kurds and the Kurd commander said 'air support had helped a lot'

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Lot of nonsense and revisionism going on here.

Why is the IRA are being compared to ISIS? Just because they were a terrorist organisation? That is where it ends. Their aims were much more legitimate than any claim ISIS make. Is there any request that ISIS can make that could lead to an agreement? They want to form a new state from land taken from two countries (for now). They want to impose dictatorship on millions. They want to openly discriminate against various factions of society. They are genocidal. These are not their tactics to achieve their goal, but how they want the Caliphate to operate.

Haven't seen anyone on here compare the two as being similar.

 

But your response does indicate why there might never be a resolution.

Edited by Redray

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Well then why bring up the IRA as an example when calling for talks with ISIS?

 

There is a way for resolution but not by talking to ISIS. The short-term aim must be to regain territories they hold, free the people they oppress and resources they control. More importantly, here is where talking, education etc. then come in, one must look to stop the flood of disaffected young men who are flocking to join their ranks. There is no easy resolution and no quick one to end the problem. However I cannot think of one think that could come out of talks with top ISIS brass that could result in any form of compromise or agreement.......unless it is them surrendering.

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Look, people can try for all I care and for all we know some may have already attempted to. My point about talking to them is that I cannot think of one single thing that can be said that can make things better. 

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The problem is who are you going to talk to? And who'll lead the talks? And what resolution will be satisfactory to the people of Iraq and Syria?

 

If you want to stop isis, stop their sponsors (Saudi, Qatar and Turkey)

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The problem is who are you going to talk to? And who'll lead the talks? And what resolution will be satisfactory to the people of Iraq and Syria?

 

If you want to stop isis, stop their sponsors (Saudi, Qatar and Turkey)

Correct. Let's move away from thinking we can't talk to them and then worry about the specifics thereafter. It's about mind frame and intent. Let's try and change that first. Ain't gonna happen soon I don't think.

Look, people can try for all I care and for all we know some may have already attempted to. My point about talking to them is that I cannot think of one single thing that can be said that can make things better.

And there's your IRA simile.

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Talk about what? We either all bow down to their way of thinking or there's nothing to talk about. 

 

These aren't reasonable people. They're not people with a misguided sense of injustice or a misguided sense of how to get what they want - which you could level at most other terrorist organizations. They're f***ing extreme maniacs.

 

The IRA would shoot people & blow s*** up - and usually they'd be military or police; towards the end they'd even give advance warnings because they realized that slaughtering people who have nothing to do with their aims wasn't a great tactic.

 

ISIS burn people alive, saw their heads off etc. The only land they want is all of it - every square inch of the planet

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Talk about what? We either all bow down to their way of thinking or there's nothing to talk about. 

 

These aren't reasonable people. They're not people with a misguided sense of injustice or a misguided sense of how to get what they want - which you could level at most other terrorist organizations. They're f***ing extreme maniacs.

 

The IRA would shoot people & blow s*** up - and usually they'd be military or police; towards the end they'd even give advance warnings because they realized that slaughtering people who have nothing to do with their aims wasn't a great tactic.

 

ISIS burn people alive, saw their heads off etc. The only land they want is all of it - every square inch of the planet

Bingo.

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Correct. Let's move away from thinking we can't talk to them and then worry about the specifics thereafter. It's about mind frame and intent. Let's try and change that first. Ain't gonna happen soon I don't think.

 

And there's your IRA simile.

 

No simile at all. The only similarity is that both used violence. 

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