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5 minutes ago, Tommok said:

Oh yeah I'm perfectly aware of that and I'm not saying that there's no similarities. But what we've seen in the last 4 years and the last 4 weeks is on another level - I don't think the difference between Bush and his lot and Trump and his can be dismissed as just a few idiosyncrasies.

I think it's quite appropriate for people to be incredulous at what we're currently seeing and I think that saying "it was ever thus" is probably a bit disingenuous.

I think to deny that is naive.

The thing that this band of goons is only nominally trying to accomplish was competently executed by proper cut throats. There is no comparison. Cheney, Rove, Rumsfeld and the likes were f***ing killers.

People laugh about fake news now but this lot were planting their own stories about weapons of mass destruction in the paper of record and murdering 100s of 1000s in foreign lands citing that as evidence. Any incredulity is a mixture of a reaction to the bufoonery on show and short term historical amnesia.

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Just total relief - I'm actually far more emotional than I thought I would be at the news that Macca won't be moving back to the UK now 

"Between a c**k and a charred place"

Harry Maguire's career surely can't recover from this

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32 minutes ago, sammy & a said:

I think to deny that is naive.

The thing that this band of goons is only nominally trying to accomplish was competently executed by proper cut throats. There is no comparison. Cheney, Rove, Rumsfeld and the likes were f***ing killers.

People laugh about fake news now but this lot were planting their own stories about weapons of mass destruction in the paper of record and murdering 100s of 1000s in foreign lands citing that as evidence. Any incredulity is a mixture of a reaction to the bufoonery on show and short term historical amnesia.

Well yeah the Bush administrations were chock full of c**** and that leads back to Reagan too as some of his cronies reappeared in those administrations.

I'm certainly not implying that previous US Presidents and prominent political figures in the US political arena haven't been dreadful people and done dreadful things before. Many of those dreadful things are quite similar or identical to the stuff that Trump's been up to.

I'm merely saying that in my opinion some of the stuff Trump's been up to (including his "buffoonery") is of a kind/level we've never really seen from a US President.

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2 minutes ago, Tommok said:

Well yeah the Bush administrations were chock full of c**** and that leads back to Reagan too as some of his cronies reappeared in those administrations.

I'm certainly not implying that previous US Presidents and prominent political figures in the US political arena haven't been dreadful people and done dreadful things before. Many of those dreadful things are quite similar or identical to the stuff that Trump's been up to.

I'm merely saying that in my opinion some of the stuff Trump's been up to (including his "buffoonery") is of a kind/level we've never really seen from a US President.

Ok. I'm saying the stuff that matters, that has major material consequences for the lives of people, is continuation as opposed to escalation and failure to deal with that gets us right back to here. 

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1 hour ago, sammy & a said:

Bush and the Republican machinery including the Supreme Court literally stole an election and it was during Houllier's treble season so we were all around for it.

Aye.

Trump is basically just doing an embarrassingly bad job of something that Bush pulled off with much greater efficiency.

He's like the Nazi in Raiders of the Lost Ark who tries to copy Indy hanging onto the front of the truck but ends up getting run over.

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6 minutes ago, sammy & a said:

Ok. I'm saying the stuff that matters, that has major material consequences for the lives of people, is continuation as opposed to escalation and failure to deal with that gets us right back to here. 

Yeah I wouldn't disagree with that at all.

My point was really not much more than - Trump's bats*** behaviour seemed to me to be a bit more than merely idiosyncrasies. 

It was perhaps little more than questioning the phrasing rather than a disagreement with the core message of your original post.

Pint?

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3 minutes ago, Tommok said:

Yeah I wouldn't disagree with that at all.

My point was really not much more than - Trump's bats*** behaviour seemed to me to be a bit more than merely idiosyncrasies. 

It was perhaps little more than questioning the phrasing rather than a disagreement with the core message of your original post.

Pint?

Let's have a few 🍻

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I think that Cheney, Rove and Rumsfeld were better at their jobs that the current lot are. So, what sets the likes of Trump and Johnson apart from that list of goons is that they just aren't as good at doing it as the Bush crew were and that makes them look clumsy and that kinda scares us. Having said that, Cheney, Rove and Rumsfeld weren't as good as what they thought they were either. 

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8 minutes ago, pipnasty said:

I think that Cheney, Rove and Rumsfeld were better at their jobs that the current lot are. So, what sets the likes of Trump and Johnson apart from that list of goons is that they just aren't as good at doing it as the Bush crew were and that makes them look clumsy and that kinda scares us. Having said that, Cheney, Rove and Rumsfeld weren't as good as what they thought they were either. 

Are we old men complaining that the psycho mass murdering world leaders of our day were way better than the ones our kids have produced?

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14 minutes ago, sammy & a said:

Are we old men complaining that the psycho mass murdering world leaders of our day were way better than the ones our kids have produced?

I think we are - white phosphorus bombs for goalposts, what what

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3 hours ago, pipnasty said:

I think that Cheney, Rove and Rumsfeld were better at their jobs that the current lot are. So, what sets the likes of Trump and Johnson apart from that list of goons is that they just aren't as good at doing it as the Bush crew were and that makes them look clumsy and that kinda scares us. Having said that, Cheney, Rove and Rumsfeld weren't as good as what they thought they were either. 

They just knew they needed to lie, Trump just decided to be blatant about everything.

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WHAT IS HAPPENING? This is all so f***ing crazy

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Trump appears to have cut ties with Sidney Powell, a key member of his legal team who also represents former national security adviser Michael Flynn in his long-running attempt to unravel a guilty plea for lying about his 2016 contacts with Russia.

The abrupt shake-up came in a terse Sunday-evening statement from the Trump campaign that offered no explanation for Powell’s removal.

“Sidney Powell is practicing law on her own,” Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani and campaign lawyer Jenna Ellis said in the statement. “She is not a member of the Trump Legal Team. She is also not a lawyer for the President in his personal capacity.”

Powell had made headlines in recent weeks for her increasingly outrageous and unsupported claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election, repeatedly vowing to “release the kraken” of evidence, only to refuse to produce it when asked by reporters.

She has accused election officials in multiple states of committing crimes, and in recent days turned on Georgia’s Republican governor, Brian Kemp, who on Friday helped certify President-elect Joe Biden’s victory in the state. Her attack on Kemp, which also included the threat of a “biblical” lawsuit, appeared to unsettle some of Trump’s allies.

“Sidney Powell accusing Governor Brian Kemp of a crime on television yet being unwilling to go on TV and defend and lay out the evidence that she supposedly has, this is outrageous conduct,” former Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey said on Sunday.

Trump announced Powell as a centerpiece of his legal team in a recent tweet, declaring that she, Giuliani and others would form a team that would later dub itself an “elite strike force.”

But the team has so far failed to produce any meaningful legal wins, and in fact has been repeatedly rebuffed by federal judges who have excoriated the Trump lawyers for demanding draconian measures — like throwing out millions of lawful ballots — without presenting evidence to justify it.

In recent days, Republicans aligned with the national party began to express increasing reservations about Powell’s rhetoric, including the claim that Trump had “won by a landslide,” even though Biden is millions ahead in the popular vote and won states equating to 306 electoral votes, compared with Trump’s 232.

The national GOP on Thursday posted a video clip of Powell making the claim, and Ellis, the Trump campaign’s attorney, celebrated Powell’s remarks at last week’s press conference.

 

This is crazy/embarrassing...

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The consistent approach with all these claims appears to be to take the 'if what we've been told is true' stance. I presume that protects them from any libel action but achieves the goal of pushing the conspiracy narrative with their idiotic followers?

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7 hours ago, Sir Tokyo Sexwale said:

WHAT IS HAPPENING? This is all so f***ing crazy

This is crazy/embarrassing...

I saw clips last night of her interview on Newsmax where she accused the Georgia governor of being on the take, aligned with Venezuela and the CIA of being involved in voter fraud.  It was entertainingly bats*** crazy but bats*** crazy doesn't normally get you fired from the Trump team.

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1 hour ago, Redwire said:

I saw clips last night of her interview on Newsmax where she accused the Georgia governor of being on the take, aligned with Venezuela and the CIA of being involved in voter fraud.  It was entertainingly bats*** crazy but bats*** crazy doesn't normally get you fired from the Trump team.

This is it

 

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Has Trump done his "I've never heard of (her)" line yet

She can join all the other well known right wing psycho friends of his he's "never heard of"

Or perhaps she'll get the "I wish her well" line reserved for perpetrators of international paedophile rings.

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