The US President

[charlie clown]

23 minutes ago, Redwire said:

The Democrats are a huge distance from being a party of the left.

I am in regular contact with a couple of Trump-supporting republican voters. Their ignorance is staggering. They're always moaning about the liberal, socialist, Biden regime.  I regularly ask them which it is - socialists, liberals or Bidenites - and they have no idea there is any difference. I think they are really just looking for a target to vent their anger and bitterness at.

And nasty, spiteful people in many respects.

Edited November 4, 2021 by charlie clown

[Nebraska Red]

37 minutes ago, Redwire said:

The Democrats are a huge distance from being a party of the left.

Their problem is that they have so many degrees of leftism. The party leaders do not have the same fear induced grip on their members as the GOP.

t***s like Machine and Sinema are able to hijack and stifle any Democrat agenda as there is no effective party whip.

Meanwhile, anybody with money, and a healthy stock portfolio, can sit back and relax.

 

31 minutes ago, charlie clown said:

I am in regular contact with a couple of Trump-supporting republican voters. Their ignorance is staggering. They're always moaning about the liberal, socialist, Biden regime.  I regularly ask them which it is - socialists, liberals or Bidenites - and they have no idea there is any difference. I think they are really just looking for a target to vent their anger and bitterness at.

And nasty, spiteful people in many respects.

Hate and anger just for the heck of it.

[stressederic]

1 hour ago, Stevie H said:

Defining "getting things done" is pretty clear I think, it's actually doing things. Rather than stopping the other side doing anything at all, which is Mitch McConnell's raison d'etre.

The Republican Party knows full well it is in the minority in the US. Every remotely progressive policy polls well in America, from climate change to medicare for all to minimum wage to Roe vs Wade and many more besides. And I know they don't sound progressive to us, but hey. America is a socialist country in its majority, it just doesn't know it. 

So all the Republicans have got is obstruct, block, filibuster and lie. All under a flag of patriotism and, well, God. And along the way Rupert Murdoch helped turn that into a crazed death cult that leads to January 6th.

I don't think the Democrats are blameless in this at all. As with loads of parties of the left they spend way too much time arguing amongst themselves about achieving perfection rather than compromising a bit, buddying up and maybe achieving something good. But there's absolutely no possibility of bipartisanship in the US any more and the only outcome I can see at this point is that Trump wins the 2024 election. I think the world needs to get ready for that. 

But that's the thing: what is there left for them to do? It already looks like a paradise over there if you're an old rich white guy connected to the GOP. Yes you could probably save even more on taxes, but it still looks like they've won.

The GOP have even managed to outsource much of the day to day social and cultural aspects of governing to the grassroots level with a variety of crazed right-wingers who pack school boards and state houses. The Democrats have been dreadfully inept at dealing with that. It means that the central Republican Party is winning by osmosis anyway.

I'm not trying to be obtuse here either. I'm genuinely wondering what other things/laws etc that the GOP could pass but haven't that aren't either already enacted or are seemingly on the way?

Maybe repeals of gay marriage etc but as with abortion they're just going to try and legislate that stuff out on a state level.

It all means that their obstructionism just ensures things stay exactly as they are which is just what they want. What else could they do to improve things?

[Nebraska Red]

36 minutes ago, stressederic said:

But that's the thing: what is there left for them to do? It already looks like a paradise over there if you're an old rich white guy connected to the GOP. Yes you could probably save even more on taxes, but it still looks like they've won.

The GOP have even managed to outsource much of the day to day social and cultural aspects of governing to the grassroots level with a variety of crazed right-wingers who pack school boards and state houses. The Democrats have been dreadfully inept at dealing with that. It means that the central Republican Party is winning by osmosis anyway.

I'm not trying to be obtuse here either. I'm genuinely wondering what other things/laws etc that the GOP could pass but haven't that aren't either already enacted or are seemingly on the way?

Maybe repeals of gay marriage etc but as with abortion they're just going to try and legislate that stuff out on a state level.

It all means that their obstructionism just ensures things stay exactly as they are which is just what they want. What else could they do to improve things?

GOP will be absolutely content to trot out Trump as some sort of savior of the masses, and then leave him to sit at a desk signing worthless sheets of paper with a sharpie.

The grass roots will be happy and get little or nothing in return.

The top 1% will continue to own 90% plus of the wealth. 

[stressederic]

25 minutes ago, Nebraska Red said:

GOP will be absolutely content to trot out Trump as some sort of savior of the masses, and then leave him to sit at a desk signing worthless sheets of paper with a sharpie.

The grass roots will be happy and get little or nothing in return.

The top 1% will continue to own 90% plus of the wealth. 

Yep pretty much. The only issue with that model is that, as 6th January showed, Trump isn't some harmless puppet for them to dangle around but a fascist in his own right. Trump wouldn't have cared a jot if the crowd had killed every GOP figure in the building.

But that's a danger and a problem for the Republicans from the far-right not from the Democrats.

[Jarg Armani]

The Republicans create a lot of distracting culture war hoo-ha whilst maintaining the status quo and funnelling as much public money as possible to their vested interests. They are good at it. 

[Redwire]

21 minutes ago, Jarg Armani said:

The Republicans create a lot of distracting culture war hoo-ha whilst maintaining the status quo and funnelling as much public money as possible to their vested interests. They are good at it. 

Cf. Tories.

[Nebraska Red]

Sadly, the Democrats are way too naive and nice to put up a fair fight.

Wanting the right thing for the people doesn't go anywhere over here at the moment.

 Medical coverage for all should be a basic right. But ask any Republican, and you would think it was some kind of third rail to allow the less advantaged to get to see a doctor without going bankrupt.

[drdooom]

It's not because they're too naive and nice.

[cymrococh]

29 minutes ago, drdooom said:

It's not because they're too naive and nice.

hahaha

[pipnasty]

51 minutes ago, drdooom said:

It's not because they're too naive and nice.

Yeah - don't remember them being naive and nice when launching unmanned drone strikes. 

Not that I'm suggesting unmanned drone strikes against the GOP. But now you come to mention it.....

Edited November 4, 2021 by pipnasty

[Nebraska Red]

I meant naive and nice when it comes to dealing with the GOP. 

[New York Red]

18 hours ago, kop205 said:

That result is a rejection of Biden and of the Democrats' broken election promises, not of the likes of AOC.

Weird to claim otherwise.

Trump is living proof that people have had enough of the same old s***e, but while conservatives mobilised behind their 'radical alternative',  self-proclaimed progressives continue to talk their's down. 

You’re wrong about that. That may be a European fantasy, but Americans consistently vote against their own interests. Sure, they like free healthcare, but not at the cost of supporting AOC, accepting stricter gun control, loosening up on abortion, and in and on.

One of the things that electorate in New York was mobilized by the reform of the bail to a more liberal methodology. The bizarre hatred for the teaching of American history from an honest standpoint was another. Republicans came out in droves and the Democratic failure to pass legislation (note: they couldn’t get the votes because the politicians reflected the priorities of their electorate) jaded the Democrats.

This was a red wave and it is a horrible signal for what is to come.

You may want a more left-wing agenda, but it will not carry in America presently. The reason for that is a mixture of people just not wanting it for their own social reasons, or for apathy. The likes of AOC are a wonderful PR tool for the Republican Party to rally their cause.

 

17 hours ago, PaulMcC186 said:

The majority of people living in US want free healthcare. Could easily be built on by decent politicians. 

The same politicians who advocate that are also the ones who want gun control, separation of church and state, and abortion rights.

Therefore, free health care loses every time.

[smithdown]

Having a go at AOC now.
 

ok, there’s a pattern emerging  

[Earl Hafler]

The Trump 2024 will start gathering pace in January. 

Uurrrrrggggghhhhh

[pipnasty]

So, Joe Manchin describes himself as a moderate.

Discuss

[stressederic]

1 hour ago, pipnasty said:

So, Joe Manchin describes himself as a moderate.

Discuss

Given how far the political spectrum over there has been dragged to the right, he might fit the term...

[pipnasty]

11 minutes ago, stressederic said:

Given how far the political spectrum over there has been dragged to the right, he might fit the term...

That's a fair point unfortunately 

[Nebraska Red]

Another example of the utterly broken and corrupt healthcare system.

https://scoop.upworthy.com/woman-billed-700-for-waiting-emergency-room-7-hours-leaving-without-treatment

A woman suffering from a head injury was charged $700 for just waiting for treatment at a hospital in Georgia. She stated that she hadn't even got treatment at the hospital but had been charged for waiting for seven hours. Taylor Davis said she left the emergency room because no one had attended to her for seven hours but was still charged $700. 

[New York Red]

18 hours ago, smithdown said:

Having a go at AOC now.
 

ok, there’s a pattern emerging  

Right. She is a fantastic object for the Republicans to point at. To paint her as a future leader of a socialist America. 

Here’s a pattern for you. The higher her profile, the more that Republicans win. She’s the perfect symbol for their PR lies. 

Edited November 6, 2021 by New York Red

[smithdown]

2 hours ago, New York Red said:

Right. She is a fantastic object for the Republicans to point at. To paint her as a future leader of a socialist America. 

Here’s a pattern for you. The higher her profile, the more that Republicans win. She’s the perfect symbol for their PR lies. 

 

so the best thing she and Ilhan can do is be quiet and stay off our screens and let more acceptable reasonable looking people make the case for progressive ideas, I get it 

Clear as day

 

And voters who look like and sound like her will just go along with it because they’ve no choice, or voice, which is ideal 

[smithdown]

Are there any women of colour in the democrat party who are doing it right, whose presence doesn’t win votes for the other side?

[New York Red]

5 minutes ago, smithdown said:

 

so the best thing she and Ilhan can do is be quiet and stay off our screens and let more acceptable reasonable looking people make the case for progressive ideas, I get it 

Clear as day

 

And voters who look like and sound like her will just go along with it because they’ve no choice, or voice, which is ideal 

Ummmm, no you don’t. What she and Ilhan can do is to embrace less controversial positions rather than ones that have no chance of becoming law and which get used by the right to boost their campaigns.

The present situation sucks. The voters who look and sound like her have gotten the shaft repeatedly. But championing views that have no chance of happening is pointless. It sucks, but it is pointless.

2 minutes ago, smithdown said:

Are there any women of colour in the democrat party who are doing it right, whose presence doesn’t win votes for the other side?

Yes. Val Demmings, Karen Bass, Lucy McBath.

Plenty more on the state level too. Tish James for example.

[smithdown]

1 minute ago, New York Red said:

Ummmm, no you don’t. What she and Ilhan can do is to embrace less controversial positions rather than ones that have no chance of becoming law and which get used by the right to boost their campaigns.

The present situation sucks. The voters who look and sound like her have gotten the shaft repeatedly. But championing views that have no chance of happening is pointless. It sucks, but it is pointless.

So they should be quieter.  If the things they believe in don’t resonate with republicans they should leave it to more experienced and wiser heads or just go home and stop messing about 

 

It sucks but that’s the way forward for progressive politics 

 

Right on 

And their supporters and people who agree with them will have no choices or voices but the main thing is that republicans will feel they’re being heard 

[New York Red]

4 minutes ago, smithdown said:

So they should be quieter.  If the things they believe in don’t resonate with republicans they should leave it to more experienced and wiser heads or just go home and stop messing about 

 

It sucks but that’s the way forward for progressive politics 

 

Right on 

And their supporters and people who agree with them will have no choices or voices but the main thing is that republicans will feel they’re being heard 

Quieter? No. Adopting positions that actually have a chance of becoming reality? Yes.
 

It doesn’t need to resonate with Republicans. That’s a waste of time. Things need to resonate with Democrats and independents.