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Estate Agencies


Tommok

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The house prices in the South East/London don't seem real to me. How are there enough people with enough money to get a mortgage on these properties.

Its a bubble that can't expand indefinitely, can it ?

 

Depends on the continued level of foreign investment. A huge proportion of these homes are being bought by people who will never live in them, especially in London but incresingly in all towns within commuting distance. As long as there are enough jobs for people to be drawn to work there it will contine. Any end to the expansion is more likely to come at the point where rents on these properties cease to be even theoretically affordable.

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Still. Homeowners on average pay a smaller proportion of their incomes in mortgage repayments than non owners pay in rent. So my sympathies are somewhat limited.

 

Yeah this doesn't surprise me really but the lack of affordable rented accommodation is the real problem.

 

If I hadn't bought I don't think I'd buy.

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Depends on the continued level of foreign investment. A huge proportion of these homes are being bought by people who will never live in them, especially in London but incresingly in all towns within commuting distance. As long as there are enough jobs for people to be drawn to work there it will contine. Any end to the expansion is more likely to come at the point where rents on these properties cease to be even theoretically affordable.

 

 

Do you think that is true of even 'normal' houses, i.e. 3 and 4 bed family homes in the suburbs or Peckham?

 

It's undoubtedly true of multi-million pound Mayfair apartments, but do you think that regular homes are being bought up directly by foreign absentee investors/landlords?

 

Yeah this doesn't surprise me really but the lack of affordable rented accommodation is the real problem.

 

 

I'd say the rental market round me is relatively balanced - i.e. good demand, decent supply, prices aren't too bad.

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Do you think that is true of even 'normal' houses, i.e. 3 and 4 bed family homes in the suburbs or Peckham?

 

It's undoubtedly true of multi-million pound Mayfair apartments, but do you think that regular homes are being bought up directly by foreign absentee investors/landlords?

 

It's happening with flats/apartments all over. Wil be less so with traditional family houses, but then there's a hell of a lot less of those being built than flats. Not limited to London either. There's a new apartment block under construction in Reading, 10 minutes walk from the station. Entire block was purchased off plan by a middle east invester before the foundations were down.

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It's happening with flats/apartments all over. Wil be less so with traditional family houses, but then there's a hell of a lot less of those being built than flats. Not limited to London either. There's a new apartment block under construction in Reading, 10 minutes walk from the station. Entire block was purchased off plan by a middle east invester before the foundations were down.

 

 

Fck me, that's a bit scary.

 

The trend for building flats does my head in - in the south east, there was always quite limited demand for flats outside of London and a few major towns, the logic being that people moved out of London to own a house with a garage and a garden. Now any development that happens around me* ... becomes flats. Some of them are stunning, but it shows who the developers are aiming at ... that Middle East investor that you mention.

 

 

* The one exception is the old Honda dealership at Ascot station. They moved that a few years ago to a s***hole a few miles away (aka Bracknell for those who know the area) and building work started early this year. I was telling anyone who would listen that it was obviously going to be "more bloody flats". Got that one wrong - a sign went up a while back ... a new McLaren dealership is going in there :lol:/> F'ck me, where is all this money coming from? I guess these Middle Eastern investors will pop down to check on their investments ... and buy a f'ckin McLaren while they're here (with their paper profits).

 

It's all going to s*** again, I tell you.

 

 

 

 

p.s. Oh yeah, plus gated communities, they're increasingly popular. Especially with the Operation Yewtree mob - harder for the Police and Press to turn up unexpectedly, I guess.

Edited by RP
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I'd say the rental market round me is relatively balanced - i.e. good demand, decent supply, prices aren't too bad.

 

I think that's rarer than it was. I don't know where you live and I don't know what you consider affordable, with good reason like.

 

In Dublin the situation is weird, you have people not being able to get mortgages but are paying rents in excess of mortgage payments, buy to let has investors wanting to cover mortgage payments and downward pressure on house prices never translated into pressure on rental costs as investors looked to keep up payments and, bizarrely after the biggest house building program in the countries history has a shortage of housing stock where people actually want to live and a surfeit where people don't, yes Leitrim I'm talking about you, and Carlow Longford Roscommon etc.

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It's happening with flats/apartments all over. Wil be less so with traditional family houses, but then there's a hell of a lot less of those being built than flats. Not limited to London either. There's a new apartment block under construction in Reading, 10 minutes walk from the station. Entire block was purchased off plan by a middle east invester before the foundations were down.

Read something a month or so back saying that many of these new build apartments (London mainly) are bought and sold two/three times before they are even complete.

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I think that's rarer than it was. I don't know where you live and I don't know what you consider affordable, with good reason like.

 

In Dublin the situation is weird, you have people not being able to get mortgages but are paying rents in excess of mortgage payments, buy to let has investors wanting to cover mortgage payments and downward pressure on house prices never translated into pressure on rental costs as investors looked to keep up payments and, bizarrely after the biggest house building program in the countries history has a shortage of housing stock where people actually want to live and a surfeit where people don't, yes Leitrim I'm talking about you, and Carlow Longford Roscommon etc.

Saw a programme about Dublin property when we were over there a while back and it seemed mental. Houses going for twice the asking price.

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I think that's rarer than it was. I don't know where you live and I don't know what you consider affordable, with good reason like.

 

In Dublin the situation is weird, you have people not being able to get mortgages but are paying rents in excess of mortgage payments, buy to let has investors wanting to cover mortgage payments and downward pressure on house prices never translated into pressure on rental costs as investors looked to keep up payments and, bizarrely after the biggest house building program in the countries history has a shortage of housing stock where people actually want to live and a surfeit where people don't, yes Leitrim I'm talking about you, and Carlow Longford Roscommon etc.

 

 

 

I'm just comparing to back when I rented 20-25 years ago - rents have moved since then obviously but where I used to rent a lovely house for £1,000 a month ... it'd now be £1,500 maybe. Whereas back then it would have cost £300k to buy (that's why I moved out of London) and it's got to be worth comfortably over a million quid now.

 

In my (non-scientific, non-demonstrable) experience, rents are more affordable than they were relative to house prices. People too often compare mortgage repayments with rent, as opposed to comparing house values with rent. I think it's the wrong comparison.

 

Saw a programme about Dublin property when we were over there a while back and it seemed mental. Houses going for twice the asking price.

 

 

Friends are from Dalkey - I think they enjoyed/suffered the best/worst of it.

 

I can't remeber the precise figures but it was something like ... they sold their 'normal' house in a good spot for 800,000 EUR. 6 months later it changed hands for 1.25mil and a year after that was on the market for 1.6mil. The house they moved to, down the road, they bought for 500,000 EUR and was worth nearly a million 18 months later.

 

Trying to date that - it was when I was over there for rugby ... so was either Spring 2003 or whenever the first game was played at Croke Park (I think it was the latter). When was that then? 2007?

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I'm just comparing to back when I rented 20-25 years ago - rents have moved since then obviously but where I used to rent a lovely house for £1,000 a month ... it'd now be £1,500 maybe. Whereas back then it would have cost £300k to buy (that's why I moved out of London) and it's got to be worth comfortably over a million quid now.

 

In my (non-scientific, non-demonstrable) experience, rents are more affordable than they were relative to house prices. People too often compare mortgage repayments with rent, as opposed to comparing house values with rent. I think it's the wrong comparison.

 

I understand why you think it's the wrong comparison, I'm guessing anyway it's because of the ridiculously low interest rates distorting mortgage payments and mortgage holders are subject to greater movement than renters. However if renters are paying a greater % of their income in rents than householders are in mortgage payments I don't think they are more affordable.

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I understand why you think it's the wrong comparison, I'm guessing anyway it's because of the ridiculously low interest rates distorting mortgage payments and mortgage holders are subject to greater movement than renters.

 

 

Yeah, absolutely.

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Saw a programme about Dublin property when we were over there a while back and it seemed mental. Houses going for twice the asking price.

 

And it's starting again, after the crash around 2007/2008. Houses now going for 100k over a 400k asking price after a single days viewings is not uncommon.

 

Trying to date that - it was when I was over there for rugby ... so was either Spring 2003 or whenever the first game was played at Croke Park (I think it was the latter). When was that then? 2007?

 

If it was when I met you for a drink it was 2006/7.

 

The whole f***ing country went bonkers

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However if renters are paying a greater % of their income in rents than householders are in mortgage payments I don't think they are more affordable.

 

 

Yeah ok - but I guess I am thinking on a forward-looking basis (i.e. guessing with the help of my crystal ball, which is usually pretty accurate).

 

Looking at projected costs over say the next 3-5 years ... renting is more appealing than buying. I accept that I have varied the question somewhat (to suit my own ends, of course).

 

If it was when I met you for a drink it was 2006/7.

 

 

That was it, 2007 - when we got the forged tickets.

 

 

I was off my f***ing t*** that day. Did you hear what happened when we got to the ground?

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Yeah ok - but I guess I am thinking on a forward-looking basis (i.e. guessing with the help of my crystal ball, which is usually pretty accurate).

 

Looking at projected costs over say the next 3-5 years ... renting is more appealing than buying. I accept that I have varied the question somewhat (to suit my own ends, of course).

 

I think you have a point here, like if I was renting now I'd be saving half but then I'm rural and no f***** wants to live where I do, well apart from me and Anne fortunately. I think the big cities have the bigger issues with affordable accomodation along with the best stuff being lost due to right to buy.

 

That was it, 2007 - when we got the forged tickets.

 

I was off my f***ing t*** that day. Did you hear what happened when we got to the ground?

 

You were kinda f***ed when you left the pub, I recall you headed for the airport but the rest is vague, you weren't the only one f***ed that day.

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Because increasing prices have cut off entry to the ladder for just about everyone who isn't in a very well paid profession, or from a family who can provide significant support, a lot more of those renters are going to be renters for life. So it isn't just the month on month, year on year cost comparisson. The home owner knows that at some stage the mortgage is paid off, the renter is increasingly likely to be renting for life. Any projection cost over the long term should be taking acount of that.

 

The knock on effects are huge - the lifetime renter will need a higher retirement income to take care of ongoing housing costs, provided either by themselves (at a further impact to their income/outgoings during working life) or by the state through benefit payments.

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Because increasing prices have cut off entry to the ladder for just about everyone who isn't in a very well paid profession, or from a family who can provide significant support, a lot more of those renters are going to be renters for life. So it isn't just the month on month, year on year cost comparisson. The home owner knows that at some stage the mortgage is paid off, the renter is increasingly likely to be renting for life. Any projection cost over the long term should be taking acount of that.

 

The knock on effects are huge - the lifetime renter will need a higher retirement income to take care of ongoing housing costs, provided either by themselves (at a further impact to their income/outgoings during working life) or by the state through benefit payments.

 

I get this but if the cost of the rent is cheap enough in comparison then the gains made can offset the costs of continuing to rent after the mortgage would be paid. I'm almost certain that buying will cost me actual money over renting the house I'm in for life.

Edited by Swan Red
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You were kinda f***ed when you left the pub, I recall you headed for the airport but the rest is vague, you weren't the only one f***ed that day.

 

 

Yeah that's it.

 

I shouldn't have been there anyway - without looking it up it was the last weekend in Feb, i.e. my daughter's birthday. So I felt bad at being there in the first place.

 

Being an argumentative c*** (no really, I can be) I just wanted to be in the ground for the national anthem. Not that arsed about nationalism in the slightest - but the thought of GSTQ being sung at Croke Park amused me. So when I hadn't got in before kick-off, due to aforementioned forgeries, and my (Irish) mate just wanted to find a way in any which way, I thought fck it and jumped in a cab for the airport. Left all my stuff at his parents (in Dalkey) and bought a flight home - was really cheap whilst the game was on.

 

It was only as I went through Customs that I remembered the contents of my pockets and started to think how much trouble I was potentially about to land myself in. The immediate paranoia probably wasn't unconnected to what was in my pocket and how much I had consumed during the day :D

 

I disposed of the offending goods in the only sensible way - went to the Gents to flush down the loo but then thought 'no fck it, I'll finish it'. What a f***ing tremendous flight home that was.

 

And my daughter was really impressed at the state I got home to surprise her on her birthday :lol:

 

Happy days them.

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I get this but if the cost of the rent is cheap enough in comparison then the gains made can offset the costs of continuing to rent after the mortgage would be paid. I'm almost certain that buying will cost me actual money over renting the house I'm in for life.

 

Issue is that the cost of renting isn't cheap in comparisson though, it's more expensive and prohibitaively so. This recent report from the National Housing Federation says "On average, home owners with a mortgage spend 20% of their income on paying that mortgage. However, private renters spend 40% of their income on rent". I get there are substantial costs associated with buying other than the mortgage payment, but that's still a f***ing hell of a stat.

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Issue is that the cost of renting isn't cheap in comparisson though, it's more expensive and prohibitaively so. This recent report from the National Housing Federation says "On average, home owners with a mortgage spend 20% of their income on paying that mortgage. However, private renters spend 40% of their income on rent". I get there are substantial costs associated with buying other than the mortgage payment, but that's still a f***ing hell of a stat.

 

It is and I should have been clearer in my previous reply to you, it's actually not all about me and I do agree. I think the solution is affordable rented though rather than downward pressure on house prices. I'd be alright being in rented for ever assuming the appropriate protections.

 

The situation in Ireland is that in Dublin where prices are still through the roof rents are becoming slightly more expensive despite there not being the adjustment to rental prices that there was to house prices. I am guessing here but my guess is that this is in part due to buy to rent investors needing to mortgages paid on the purchase price and the banks not lending increasing pressure on rents. Hence houses peaked dipped and are peaking again but from a lower baseline than 2007, the increases in rents are reasonably consistent right through that period.

Edited by Swan Red
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It is and I should have been clearer in my previous reply to you, it's actually not all about me and I actually agree. I think the solution is affordable rented though rather than downward pressure on house prices. I'd be alright being in rented for ever assuming the appropriate protections.

 

I'd be alright with it too, I've certainly got no ideological preference for ownership. I just want affordable, comfortable, stable housing to be available. The only solution is a massive increase in supply and that will inevitably exert a downward pressure on prices.

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I'd be alright with it too, I've certainly got no ideological preference for ownership. I just want affordable, comfortable, stable housing to be available. The only solution is a massive increase in supply and that will inevitably exert a downward pressure on prices.

 

Yeah which I'm alright with, I actually think I've got an ideological preference for renting but that's in part due to the need for housing and my general disapproval for inherited wealth.

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I'd be alright with it too, I've certainly got no ideological preference for ownership. I just want affordable, comfortable, stable housing to be available. The only solution is a massive increase in supply and that will inevitably exert a downward pressure on prices.

 

 

You'd have to build a lot of houses before prices were affected 'cos aside from those already here and already in need, the attraction of London and the suburbs is relentless, It's only high rents, no choice and property prices is keeping some people at bay. The HSR link is coming through Reading isn't it? The local 'rough' council estate in Slough is becoming gentrified because sh*t hole or not you will soon be able to get into town in 15 minutes.

 

It's all very scary stuff,

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The HSR link is coming through Reading isn't it? The local 'rough' council estate in Slough is becoming gentrified because sh*t hole or not you will soon be able to get into town in 15 minutes.

 

Crossrail's being extended to Reading rather than stopping at maidenhead, so there will be even more services. There's already 5/6 an hour into Paddington at peak times, taking half an hour (in theory), and the town itself isn't short of well paid jobs. So you can see why investors eyes are lighting up at developments shooting up around the centre.

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