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Welcome Dejan Lovren

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It was also odd for the goal he (VvD) was beaten for pace on.  He sat deeper, playing everyone onside and the usual unbeatable afterburners weren't there.  I don't know if it was thinking of Lovren that put him off, a misplaced confidence that he could beat Sarr for pace, surprise that the ball went through Robertson or if he was just affected by the injury to their lad in the first half.

Bad day at the office all round.

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8 minutes ago, Cam said:

It was also odd for the goal he (VvD) was beaten for pace on.  He sat deeper, playing everyone onside and the usual unbeatable afterburners weren't there.  I don't know if it was thinking of Lovren that put him off, a misplaced confidence that he could beat Sarr for pace, surprise that the ball went through Robertson or if he was just affected by the injury to their lad in the first half.

Bad day at the office all round.

I think he was flat footed cos he was pointing a fair bit just before it and couldnt get going fast enough. He seemed to be positioned badly and didn't anticipate it. Sarr is very fast though

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12 hours ago, Raj said:

One player causing a problem does not mean that another should not have solved it. Lovren f***ed up and so did van dijk. It was a lack of basic defending from both of them.

it wasn’t that van dijk was slow to react. He was in position but didn’t attempt to block the cross which was weird 

I think it's a case of reality adjustment

he allowed the thought "I can't believe this is happening" to dominate him instead of just dealing as best he could with the situation

it's exactly as if a 3 year old runs at you with a knife, trying to stab you...it might take a few seconds to get a grip on what you're experiencing and those seconds may be costly

given that VVD already has plenty to do, and he does it very well, and may have to do more of it if we're to progress in the CL, we should eradicate the problem at source

that is until Minority Report-type technology becomes available

*is Lovren going to have one of those days? yes? ok he can sit this one out*

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If you think back to every game we’ve been s*** in recent memory, Lovren was probably playing and played badly. He has decent games but when he’s bad he’s unthinkably awful to the point of ruining everyone else around him. Like Moreno. He’s the only one left of that ilk so get rid.

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its a bit rubbish pinning the goals on Lovren.

Yes he was crap

But so were the rest of the defence and Fabinho

West Ham scored 2 and could have had 4 easily on Monday, and Lovren wasn't on the pitch.

 

there's been a lack of energy and zip throughout the side lately, not winning 50/50s, caught in possession a lot.

 that's the issue.

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Lovren wasn't at fault for the goals particularly but, and I posted this on FB over the weekend, he seemed more interested in getting  involved in physical battles right from the off, and I think he dragged our team down to their level because of that. Doing that gave the green light to Watford to compete with us. He may not have been at fault for the goals but he was the catalyst that allowed Watford to have a go.

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Major problem with Lovren is that he thinks he's better than he is, especially things he thinks he's good at. 

Spending the match trying to wrestle Troy Deeney was at the root of his poor performance. He consistently lost that duel which put the rest of our defence under so much more pressure than usual. It was typical of the sort of the thing Lovren thinks he can do and do well. 

So on the one hand, yes, it's knee jerk to blame Lovren if you didn't see that happening. Not quite so knee jerk if you saw it happening all the ****ing game and thought "Oh sh!t, Lovren vs Deeney" when the teams where announced.   

4 minutes ago, charlie clown said:

Lovren wasn't at fault for the goals particularly but, and I posted this on FB over the weekend, he seemed more interested in getting  involved in physical battles right from the off, and I think he dragged our team down to their level because of that. Doing that gave the green light to Watford to compete with us. He may not have been at fault for the goals but he was the catalyst that allowed Watford to have a go.

I agree entirely. 

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Someone else said it, but every time Lovren plays and he's awful, some always cling on to whether he was directly at fault for the goals.

He's just a disaster now. Absolutely unsettles the entire defence. Continuing to try to deal with Deeney in a physical way after losing every single battle was lunacy. 

He's got talent, but he causes too much mania. Hope that's the last time we've seen him tbh. 

Edited by Swipe

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Main reason he unsettles the defence is that he plays like an old school man-marker, rather than part of a positionally disciplined defence. Which means, as others have said, the whole of the rest of the defence is slightly out of position, unsure what's happening next, unable to play a tight offside trap (as they don't know where Lovren's going to be), and always waiting to see how the Lovren-vs-his-man battle goes before they react. That's not how we defend when he's not in the team.

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28 minutes ago, Swipe said:

Someone else said it, but every time Lovren plays and he's awful, some always cling on to whether he was directly at fault for the goals.

He's just a disaster now. Absolutely unsettles the entire defence. Continuing to try to deal with Deeney in a physical way after losing every single battle was lunacy. 

He's got talent, but he causes too much mania. Hope that's the last time we've seen him tbh. 

Agree

More than any other first team squad member he's got the potential to have a major impact on those around him. His daft decision making, ropey distribution and talent for panic brings the side down. And whilst not his fault the lack of pace vs Gomez exposes us with our high line

As was pointed about above it was easy to see coming...him vs Deeney being a physical battle that he'd lose was pointed out before the game

Just don't play him again and get rid in the summer

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How many times did he go flying in trying to win a header only to misjudge it completely and not get anywhere near? It's f***ing basic stuff that he gets wrong.

And yes, he spent the whole time trying to win some physical battle with Deeney that he'd lost before he even stepped onto the pitch.

 

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Deeney is going to win the first ball most of the time against almost anyone except VVD. You have to be smart and be in the right positions to deal with the second ball when he does. Lovren was draping himself all over Deeney, failing to get to the ball then being left out of the game totally with a big space behind him. He was doing that from the first minute, they ran in behind him almost straight away after he over committed himself. Watch the last time we got tonked away at Spurs it was exactly the same theme - he’s never going to change.

Edited by Leo No.8

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1 hour ago, Gerry said:

How many times did he go flying in trying to win a header only to misjudge it completely and not get anywhere near? It's f***ing basic stuff that he gets wrong.

And yes, he spent the whole time trying to win some physical battle with Deeney that he'd lost before he even stepped onto the pitch.

 

He did this against Bayern. He jumped right underneath the ball and I'm sure they scored from it. It did my head in

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He's got a history of jumping underneath the ball. As has JoGo to some extent, but that tends to be rustiness rather than brain fart.

Lovren's a good CB, but he's a flat track bully. He massively struggles against anyone that can out-muscle him because he's not that great with position or concentration. He's reactive. Against anyone he can successfully man handle though, he's fine and his partner gets the easy job of sweeping up bits. That's why he's good. 

Unfortunately though, when it goes to s***, it proper goes to s*** as that's not how the other defenders defend and it's not how as a team, we defend either. 

Edited by Billy Talbot

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1 hour ago, Leo No.8 said:

Deeney is going to win the first ball most of the time against almost anyone except VVD. You have to be smart and be in the right positions to deal with the second ball when he does. Lovren was draping himself all over Deeney, failing to get to the ball then being left out of the game totally with a big space behind him. He was doing that from the first minute, they ran in behind him almost straight away after he over committed himself. Watch the last time we got tonked away at Spurs it was exactly the same theme - he’s never going to change.

Yeah, Kane loves it against him. High ball, Kane comes deep, Lovren always follows him and there's 20 yards of pitch behind him. 

Edited by Billy Talbot

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Lovren has always looked exponentially worse the more space behind him he has to defend. His judgment of when to go for the ball and when to shepherd his opponent is just awful. Actually decision making in general. When he's defending deeper and he's got team mates in closer proximity, he can do a job. 

He's completely left behind by the way this team had evolved and should have been chucked in the summer of 2018 at the latest. 

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On 02/03/2020 at 13:09, Gerry said:

How many times did he go flying in trying to win a header only to misjudge it completely and not get anywhere near? It's f***ing basic stuff that he gets wrong.

And yes, he spent the whole time trying to win some physical battle with Deeney that he'd lost before he even stepped onto the pitch.

 

That first half against Spurs a couple of seasons ago...

He's even annoying on that video with Hendo, Robbo and Bobby.

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