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Sir Tokyo Sexwale

Racism today

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1 hour ago, kop205 said:

She's a c*** - I mean, she says what she says knowing that it makes the police more lkely to respond and more likely to respond with a level of brutality that could cost him his life - but it is another one where her losing her job (and her f***ing dog?!) doesn't really seem to achieve much in the big scheme of things.

Her losing her dog achieves the goal or her not harming her dog again. 

1 hour ago, sammy & a said:

Yeah. I get the business won’t want to be linked to her and she was rough with the dog but it’s not really going to change anything and if you’re trying to build something better then maybe you just go restorative as opposed to punitive.

Was pretty wild though.

Shprt of abolishing racial capitalism not much will make a significant change but if it causes people to think twice about calling the police on black people going about their business that's also an outcome.

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1 hour ago, Swan Red said:

Her losing her dog achieves the goal or her not harming her dog again. 

Shprt of abolishing racial capitalism not much will make a significant change but if it causes people to think twice about calling the police on black people going about their business that's also an outcome.

It would be if it did. I’m not saying it won’t but I don’t know if it will do anymore than the shaming will and then you get on to issues of fairness. Once more I get that her employer will not want to be associated with that but it always makes me uneasy. I’m not trying to centre her in this but I’m always a bit uneasy.

Incidentally a while ago I was talking to Molby and Jarg Armani about the utility of the police and I was saying that they are not there to serve everyone and are an invading army for some communities. I think maybe Molby was pushing back and Jarg was explaining the good work they had done in his field. This is a hyper real to the point of caricature example. Everyone knows who they are there for and who they are against. She knew, he knew, we all f***ing know and anything else is a pretence.

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49 minutes ago, sammy & a said:

It would be if it did. I’m not saying it won’t but I don’t know if it will do anymore than the shaming will and then you get on to issues of fairness. Once more I get that her employer will not want to be associated with that but it always makes me uneasy. I’m not trying to centre her in this but I’m always a bit uneasy.

Incidentally a while ago I was talking to Molby and Jarg Armani about the utility of the police and I was saying that they are not there to serve everyone and are an invading army for some communities. I think maybe Molby was pushing back and Jarg was explaining the good work they had done in his field. This is a hyper real to the point of caricature example. Everyone knows who they are there for and who they are against. She knew, he knew, we all f***ing know and anything else is a pretence.

I think your point here is reasonable. My concern is she acted without fear of consequence and thus not facing any legitimises her prior belief. Also she works as a manager, presumably she either manages or works with black people. How are her colleagues supposed to believe she's dealing with them fairly, how many times has she spoken of a black colleague not fitting in or being angry so absent any carceral response for her behaviour her being called out and sacked while less than perfect at least constitutes a consequence.

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43 minutes ago, Swan Red said:

 

I think your point here is reasonable. My concern is she acted without fear of consequence and thus not facing any legitimises her prior belief. Also she works as a manager, presumably she either manages or works with black people. How are her colleagues supposed to believe she's dealing with them fairly, how many times has she spoken of a black colleague not fitting in or being angry so absent any carceral response for her behaviour her being called out and sacked while less than perfect at least constitutes a consequence.

Yes to all that. I just never want to create a situation where a person is done and feels they can’t return even if they realise they’re wrong. I also don’t want people around them doubling down. I feel like there has to be a way back for people. Shame can be an effective tool but then it can really do the opposite. 

I understand that it’s a ridiculous time to make the point when the police could have turned up in that park and just murdered the brother or anyone who they thought was him.

It’s all really difficult.

Edited by sammy & a
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12 hours ago, sammy & a said:

It would be if it did. I’m not saying it won’t but I don’t know if it will do anymore than the shaming will and then you get on to issues of fairness. Once more I get that her employer will not want to be associated with that but it always makes me uneasy. I’m not trying to centre her in this but I’m always a bit uneasy.

Incidentally a while ago I was talking to Molby and Jarg Armani about the utility of the police and I was saying that they are not there to serve everyone and are an invading army for some communities. I think maybe Molby was pushing back and Jarg was explaining the good work they had done in his field. This is a hyper real to the point of caricature example. Everyone knows who they are there for and who they are against. She knew, he knew, we all f***ing know and anything else is a pretence.

I think about this sometimes as well, the conversation. I accept that my experience of the police is very different to many other communities’, I just don’t know what the alternative is if they were to be abolished - maybe a shortcoming of my own imagination. That’s why I’m more reformist than abolitionist, although I would disband certain entire police forces.

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Like something off Not the 9 o'clock News. Constable Savage lives.

But yeah, I can't even imagine what it must be like living your life knieing that getting that kind of treatment is never far away.

What the f*** does she grab him for? Bad enough that she hassles him in the first place but he isn't anything other than cooperative.

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