Rodgers - Playstyle - Current/Future LFC Squad

[Flight]

There's people on here who know far more about Barca/Tiki Taka/Continental/Dutch football than me, but reading up I've found a few articles that are worth posting for the basis of discussion and debate.

 

 

For at hand reference, the RAWK thread - http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=293927.0

 

Brendan Rodgers and The Tiki Taka system : http://thepathismadebywalking.wordpress.com/tiki-taka-football-handbook/0-complete-handbook/

 

“I like to control games. I like to be responsible for our own destiny. If you are better than your opponent with the ball you have a 79 per cent chance of winning the game…for me it is quite logical. It doesn’t matter how big or small you are, if you don’t have the ball you can’t score. My template for everything is organisation. With the ball you have to know the movement patterns, the rotation, the fluidity and positioning of the team. Then there’s our defensive organisation…so if it is not going well we have a default mechanism which makes us hard to beat and we can pass our way into the game again. Rest with the ball. Then we’ll build again.”

 

Rodgers own diagram of his system :

 

 

 

When we have the football everybody’s a player. The difference with us is that when we have the ball we play with 11 men, other teams play with 10 and a goalkeeper.” (Rodgers 2012)

 

 

 

 

The formation is nothing new, however, it’s the way in which each player is used within the formation that allows the approach to work. Therefore an adjustment must be made in the traditional view of this formation from a 4-5-1/ 4-3-3/ 3-4-3 to a 1-4-5-1, 1-4-3-3, 1-3-4-3 or even a 1-2-6-1. The point here is that the formation has lost its simplicity of which it can be viewed. The formation is now one not viewed as defence, midfield and attack but instead, over 7 zones of the pitch. Barcelona use a similar system: many noted their recent change in formation from a 4-3-3 to a 3-4-3 with the introduction of Cesc Fabregas, but the truth is they have not really changed formation as much as many have been led to believe.

 

The centre forward, creative inside wingers and attacking wing backs have been consistent features of many formations through out generations and their roles do not change with much significance. It is the role of zones 1, 2, 3 and 5 that act as the core to the build up play and the success in retaining possession over the entire duration of the game.

 

The goalkeeper is seen as the sweeper and has a set of similar roles (in possession) to zones 2 and 3. The keeper is expected to act as a pressure relief for under pressure team mates.

 

Zone 2 consists of two centre backs who, unlike in other formations, are expected to play a huge role in keeping possession. They also act as pressure relief to the midfield and an obvious option for the goal keeper to play the ball out to. Instead of passing the ball 30, 40 or even 50 yards the majority of their passes will be kept under 10 yards.

 

Zone 3 has arguably the most important role to play in keeping possession. This player must be particularly good at keeping possession under pressure from opponents and will often see their passes also being played short for the duration of the game.

 

Leon Britton, Pirlo and Xavi are examples of players who act as the deep lying play makers, the water carriers, the short playing quarterback or the ‘volante de salida’ which simply translates in football terms as the outlet for under-pressure team mates.

 

“I get the ball, I pass, I get the ball, I pass, I get the ball, I pass.” (Xavier Hernandez 2011) Xavi’s hypnotic approach to the game in a simplified view. Key abilities are not to play the ball out of pressure but to play the ball within high pressure.

 

Zone 5 have the role of consistently finding space acting as the final piece in the triangular connection between team mates. These two centre midfielders, like the player in zone 3 must have high standards of passing ability and awareness to keep possession but must also have high levels of stamina to work as box-to-box midfielders. They do not necessarily look to create the spectacular, but are the catalyst in the change of speed in which the possession play is being played at, the moments of which they choose to change speed and direction of the ball are key to the succession in creating opportunities to create an assist or goal. Both zones 3 and 5 will be expected to boast 90% pass completion rates in order for the system to work successfully.

 

Zone 4 are expected to act as support to players in possession are too expected to look to work themselves into the triangular connections made with team mates. They are expected to get forward as play moves up the pitch and follow the ball back when play dictates so. Zone 4 will opt to cross the ball from the opponents byeline rather than from deep, in keeping with the 1950’s optimum assist zone in zone G.

 

Zone 6 will consist of arguably the most creative players on the ball either in the sense of dribbling ability of passing ability to create. Messi, Scott Sinclair, Nathan Dyer, Pedro, Afellay, Cuenca et al are examples of players who play in this system and portray the qualities expected. This zone will also be responsible for much of the goal scoring as well as the assisting of goals.

 

Zone 7 needs a player who is good technically and can hold the ball very well as well as link up the play. The difference here to what a traditional long ball target man will be that the lay off to a team mate will usually follow up with this player spinning away to find space and having full awareness of where space is around him in all areas of the field, the 360 degrees of vision with and without the ball.

 

Zone G is the zone to which optimum chance creation occurs. However, the difference in this system is not that of desperation to play the ball as you get into this zone, but to see if the opportunity is indeed available. If not, then the only viable option is to turn and play the ball back which then may well get played all the way across to the other side of zone G, or even back to the same side if the opponents defensive positioning has changed. Patience is the key here and the general rule that one goal is scored to every nine shots will alter due to the quality of opportunity created being significantly better.

Lastly, it is important to remember that the ‘whole is greater than the sum of it’s components’ and the entire team, despite set into separate divisions of the field is expected to work together: to move up together and backwards together, much like the waves of the ocean crashing onto the surface of the beaches.

 

 

 

 

 

Rodgers and how our current squad individually fit into his system : http://kopphilosopher.wordpress.com/2012/05/31/rodgers-liverpool-the-british-barcelona/

 

 

 

The system in play (Barca) :

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lGuaQ1khn2k

Edited June 2, 2012 by Flight

[Cam]

I know nothing about tippy-tappy but suspect that Johnson, Skrtel & Enrique will struggle due to a lack of intelligence and/or intelligent movement.

 

Suarez may actually have less freedom to wander. Gerrard will once again be given a set responsibility & this can only be a good thing.

[Flight]

Forum will only let me post one youtube media per post and there's a few I'd like to have linked.

 

Here's a vid great little vid of Barca doing 'Rondos', which is said there to form a large part of the style of training Rodgers does day in, day out :

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFPqD-N6GOk

 

 

Xavi: "It's all about rondos [piggy in the middle]. Rondo, rondo, rondo. Every. Single. Day. It's the best exercise there is. You learn responsibility and not to lose the ball. If you lose the ball, you go in the middle. Pum-pum-pum-pum, always one touch. If you go in the middle, it's humiliating, the rest applaud and laugh at you."

 

 

If a player can't cut it at Rondos they have no future at our club.

Edited June 2, 2012 by Flight

[Romario]

Forum will only let me post one youtube media per post and there's a few I'd like to have linked.

 

Here's a vid great little vid of Barca doing 'Rondos', which is said there to form a large part of the style of training Rodgers does day in, day out :

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFPqD-N6GOk

 

 

 

 

 

If a player can't cut it at Rondos they have no future at our club.

Some exceptional close control in there. Lovely to see : )

[Flight]

And here's how those rondos play out ingame :

 

 

FC Barcelona Tiki Taka vs Santos

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLYosZ-Cc74&feature=related

[blago]

I think we have Zones 1, 2, and 3 sorted with Reina, Agger, Skrtel and Lucas. Reina and Agger/Skrtel can all excel in a high defensive line setup.

 

I think Glen will also fit the new system well but am concerned about his injury record. I think in a couple of seasons Ryan McLaughlin could become the number one right back.

 

As far as left back (or zone 4 left) is concerned, I have some doubts about Enrique. His general awareness seems to be a little lacking and his delivery is often not great either. He has tremendous strength and stamina though so if his decision making and final ball can be improved then he could fit the system well.

 

The zone 5 players could potentially be Gerrard and Henderson or Gerrard and another new signing with Henderson as back up.

 

Zone 6 (the inside forwards) we have Suarez and possibly Downing with Bellamy as back up. We could definitely use another top quality player hereinstead of Downing.

 

Zone 7 (described as the linking target man) I was impressed by Carrolls form in the latter part of the season but have my doubts as to whether he'll be first choice under Rodgers. I think that Rodgers may prefer another type of striker to fit his system.

 

The eight zone approach is explaned below:

 

http://www.eplindex.com/14987/brendan-rodgers-tactical-approach-liverpool-adapt-tikitaka.html

[Knox_Harrington]

I felt we needed a belter centre mid with Kenny, Martinez, whoever else. I thought that was where to throw the money. With Rodgers I don't think the same stands. Best place to spend big is on a left sided forward. We need to improve in midfield (though Aquilani and Maxi should be seriously considered) but a couple of good players will help. The place we need a belter is left forward.

 

Decision to be made at left back too. Enrique's dip was very significant. He may just need cover but he never ever looked comfortable high up the pitch.

[Earl Hafler]

I felt we needed a belter centre mid with Kenny, Martinez, whoever else. I thought that was where to throw the money. With Rodgers I don't think the same stands. Best place to spend big is on a left sided forward. We need to improve in midfield (though Aquilani and Maxi should be seriously considered) but a couple of good players will help. The place we need a belter is left forward.

 

Decision to be made at left back too. Enrique's dip was very significant. He may just need cover but he never ever looked comfortable high up the pitch.

 

 

Henderson, Shelvey, Adam. All centre mids, all better with the ball. Shelvey and Henderson should thrive under Rodgers. I think Adam will be o.k

 

Gerrard should be used in an advanced midfield role or one of the three attacking players.

 

-----------Henderson---------Lucas------------------

------------------------Shelvey---------------------------

---------Suarez-------------------Gerrard-------------

-----------------------Carroll-----------------------------

 

Now ideally we sign someone to play in that inside left type position. Creative, scores goals. Then Gerrard plays in the advanced midfield position, and Shelvey is used when Gerrard is rested.

 

Priority is a creative goalscorer as we have only a couple of options here, whereas centre mid is covered but could use a quality addition.

 

Enrique was a good signing. Form dipped, likes the physical side too much, obvious lack of understanding with Downing ( which i think brought about the hesitation on the overlaps and looking uncomfortable when out of defence )

Has a good, early pass on him though that we could make better use of.

 

A younger Maxi would be ideal

[surf]

Zone 6 will consist of arguably the most creative players on the ball either in the sense of dribbling ability of passing ability to create. Messi, Scott Sinclair, Nathan Dyer, Pedro, Afellay, Cuenca et al are examples of players who play in this system and portray the qualities expected. This zone will also be responsible for much of the goal scoring as well as the assisting of goals.

 

so that's where i'll stick gerrard and suarez.

 

zone 1 ----------------------reina -------------------

zone 2 ---------------- skrtel -- agger------------

zone 3 ---------------------- lucas ------------------

zone 4 --johnson ------------------------ enrique

zone 5 -------- henderson --- shelvey---------

zone 6 --gerrard ---------------------------suarez

zone 7 ---------------------carroll -------------------

 

 

zone 3 needs backup, spearing misplaces too many passes

zone 5 looks like it needs the most strengthening, though i'd have aquilani back if he wants

zone 6 has maxi & bellamy as backup. please god not downing

zone 7 could be kuyt

Edited June 2, 2012 by surf

[Bailo]

I know nothing about tippy-tappy but suspect that Johnson, Skrtel & Enrique will struggle due to a lack of intelligence and/or intelligent movement.

 

Suarez may actually have less freedom to wander. Gerrard will once again be given a set responsibility & this can only be a good thing.

Couldn't disagree more about Johnno - incredibly intelligent footballer who will thrive in this system. Namechecked specifically by B-Rod.

[Molby]

Henderson, Shelvey, Adam. All centre mids, all better with the ball. Shelvey and Henderson should thrive under Rodgers. I think Adam will be o.k

 

Gerrard should be used in an advanced midfield role or one of the three attacking players.

 

-----------Henderson---------Lucas------------------

------------------------Shelvey---------------------------

---------Suarez-------------------Gerrard-------------

-----------------------Carroll-----------------------------

 

Now ideally we sign someone to play in that inside left type position. Creative, scores goals. Then Gerrard plays in the advanced midfield position, and Shelvey is used when Gerrard is rested.

 

Priority is a creative goalscorer as we have only a couple of options here, whereas centre mid is covered but could use a quality addition.

 

Enrique was a good signing. Form dipped, likes the physical side too much, obvious lack of understanding with Downing ( which i think brought about the hesitation on the overlaps and looking uncomfortable when out of defence )

Has a good, early pass on him though that we could make better use of.

 

A younger Maxi would be ideal

 

first out the door unless he changes his game - more touches, more movement without the ball, less forward passes that go astray/better ball selection

[Flight]

first out the door unless he changes his game - more touches, more movement without the ball, less forward passes that go astray/better ball selection

 

 

Yup. Time to sell those shares in William Hill Online.

[surf]

first out the door unless he changes his game - more touches, more movement without the ball, less forward passes that go astray/better ball selection

 

dunno about that. he's capable op passing, and his "low" 80% accuracy rate is due to trying a lot of long balls. cut those out and play a simple pass 1 time out of 10 times more and he's up to 90%.

 

if that's how kenny has asked him to play and he can change his game to suit what brendan wants then he has a chance

Edited June 2, 2012 by surf

[schmuckdonald]

Thought this was going to be another Grovers Tactical Manifesto. Needless to say, I'm disappointed.

[Zoob]

Actually think a lot of our players are well suited to the system. in the first half of last season Enrique's pass accuracy was fantastic, he almost never gave the ball away. Needs to do more in the final third when he has the ball, but generally don't have too many concerns about keeping it simple and ball retention. Actually same could be said about Downing - he doesn't give the ball away much, but as an attacking player he doesn't do enough with it, and too often picked the safe option when expected to create.

 

As others have said, I think Henderson could do really well as he has very good first touch and can pick a good forward pass too, hopefully Maxi will stay too. Think Adam will struggle with pressing for the ball, Kuyt's first touch lets him down too often, and Spearing just isn't anywhere close to being good enough to be back up for Lucas.

 

Do have to wonder about Carroll though. If he can be as mobile as he was in the last 6 weeks of the season, he'll be fine, but any less than that (particularly how cumbersome he looked the first half + of the season) and he won't have a role to play. The system requires all player to be able to press for the ball, and all players to be mobile enough to pass and move.

[surf]

good point about pressing, whilst i think adam can handle the passing side of things, when we need the ball he's not the player you want to win it back

[Duncan Disorderly]

Carroll said he fully understands tiki-taka.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He just wants to make sure there's plenty of naan bread too.

[fred milne]

Gerrard should be used in an advanced midfield role or one of the three attacking players.

If we are going to play 4-3-3 then Gerrard is going to be one of the midfielders, not one of the forwards.

[surf]

If we are going to play 4-3-3 then Gerrard is going to be one of the midfielders, not one of the forwards.

 

Zone 6 will consist of arguably the most creative players on the ball either in the sense of dribbling ability of passing ability to create. Messi, Scott Sinclair, Nathan Dyer, Pedro, Afellay, Cuenca et al are examples of players who play in this system and portray the qualities expected. This zone will also be responsible for much of the goal scoring as well as the assisting of goals.

 

 

sounds like gerrard to me

[Rimbeux]

[Red Yoda]

............................................................Reina

............................................................Doni

 

...............................Skrtel..............................................Agger

................................Kelly..................Carragher.............Coates

 

Johnson.............................................Lucas............................................Enrique

Flannagan......................................Henderson........................................Robinson

 

.............................Gerrard.........................................________

...............................Cole..............................................Teixeira

 

..........________............................................................................Suarez

...........Shelvey.............................................................................Bellamy

.....................................................................................................Sterling

 

.........................................................Carroll

........................................................_______

 

out :

 

Aquilani....Adam....Maxi....Downing....Kuyt

 

In :

 

Creative central midfielder :___________

 

Pacey right sided attacker :____________

 

Forward :................................____________

Edited June 2, 2012 by kopite1972

[baja the hut]

Carroll said he fully understands tiki-taka.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He just wants to make sure there's plenty of naan bread too.

 

Naan is a type of bread

[Frosty Jack]

 

this

[Chewie]

Presume he will have worked with Cole when at Chelsea...wonder if he thinks well of him ?

 

Also, presuming that the whole world is gonna be an expert on how we set up being able to enhance the system with individual flair is going to be vital.

[Earl Hafler]

If we are going to play 4-3-3 then Gerrard is going to be one of the midfielders, not one of the forwards.

 

Depends on the players available.