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Mike

'The economy is safe with the Tories'

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Due to massive neglect of the nuclear industry the UK doesn't even have the skills to build it's own Nuclear Plants, I can't see it making the country wealthy again.

 

True - Should we just sack it off then?

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To cut it short i think most of us would agree that cutting spending wont get us out of this mess

The govt has to invest, not just simply ploughing money in but actually creating or becoming

a physical presence.

 

Bank

Power

Car production

Electronics

 

Anyone care to throw in a few more?

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True - Should we just sack it off then?

We should be realistic, we are quite far behind the game for some high technology areas. You can't magic up engineers who know how to build a Nulcear plant unless we start doing something very drastic (quotas of engineers and scientists) we're not going to lead the field.

 

Some positive news, Falklands Oil to make money :)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/8761959/Rockhopper-sets-out-2bn-plan-for-first-Falklands-oil.html

Edited by Spion kop

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Jaguar, Bentley and Aston martin, McClaren are all British companies who specialise in certain types of car they do not employ any where near the numbers of a Ford or peugeot type business

 

Also they specialise in cars that a majority of the population got no use for/cannot afford...

 

We should be realistic, we are quite far behind the game for some high technology areas. You can't magic up engineers who know how to build a Nulcear plant unless we start doing something very drastic (quotas of engineers and scientists) we're not going to lead the field.

 

Myabe im being naive but isn't as simple as paying these scientist/engineers a bigger wad of cash?

Edited by Owen1978

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We should be realistic, we are quite far behind the game for some high technology areas. You can't magic up engineers who know how to build a Nulcear plant unless we start doing something very drastic (quotas of engineers and scientists) we're not going to lead the field.

 

Some positive news, Falklands Oil to make money :)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/8761959/Rockhopper-sets-out-2bn-plan-for-first-Falklands-oil.html

 

And we are absolutely nowhere in solar and wind power. What is the difference?

 

We need to incentivise nuclear physics (and engineering) in universities and ensure that they are employed in a developing industry. 10-15 years down the line you have the skill set to do it without French, German or Japanese engineering. Build it and they will come.

Edited by boohog

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I also think the UK should concentrate in becoming a world leader in green energy

Being something I happen to know about... in a funny way it is, at least in terms of leading edge technology development. But as soon as anything moves beyond the initial demonstrator stage, and often before that, there is a very significant loss of skills and know-how to overseas companies.

 

Developing this leading edge tech has been a policy recommendation for ages, and a lot of lip service has been paid to it by UK politicians, but at the end of the day there is no Government level willingness to make the UK a leader in Green Energy, at all. A shame, the rest of North Europe is absolutely battering the UK on Green energy in every respect (development of, support to manufacturing, development of professional learning, which is my field, adoption of green energy production, statutory support, etc).

 

Not that I think willy nilly higher education should be the case either. A long time ago, universities should have been directed (by subsidies from industry or some other form of incentivisation) to link the mix of higher education courses to more closely represent the requirements of the UK business landscape now and in the future.

This line about 'highly qualified workforce of the future' does my head in. Highest per capita doctorate level qualified country in Europe? Greece.

 

There is a whole world of difference between churning out huge numbers of certificated graduates and supporting everyone through an ongoing personal development/maturation process.

 

As someone has noted, seems the too many graduates in the UK thing is going to get stamped on, shame there's no move towards the second point.

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We should be realistic, we are quite far behind the game for some high technology areas. You can't magic up engineers who know how to build a Nulcear plant unless we start doing something very drastic (quotas of engineers and scientists) we're not going to lead the field.

 

Some positive news, Falklands Oil to make money :)

http://www.telegraph...klands-oil.html

 

Britain doesn't have the naval power to defend it any longer, even Obama calls them the Malvina's. There will be some kind of settlement about this oil soon enough.

 

And we are absolutely nowhere in solar and wind power. What is the difference?

 

We need to incentivise nuclear physics in universities and ensure that they are employed in a developing industry. 10-15 years down the line you have the skill set to do it without French, German or Japanese engineering.

 

One of my mates is involved in wind power engineering design, all that side of things is done over here with all the production done in in India. Think the ship has sailed in getting the production back to the UK.

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This line about 'highly qualified workforce of the future' does my head in. Highest per capita doctorate level qualified country in Europe? Greece.

 

There is a whole world of difference between churning out huge numbers of certificated graduates and supporting everyone through an ongoing personal development/maturation process.

 

As someone has noted, seems the too many graduates in the UK thing is going to get stamped on, shame there's no move towards the second point.

 

Didn't know that about Greece. Ultimately if there is no demand for the qualifications it is a huge waste.

Edited by boohog

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Morgan make cars and are wholly independent of foreign ownership. I think they employ something like 170 people

 

The issue is that we'll never mass produce anything - at least not in our lifetimes - as we are too pricey and it can be produced offshore. And efficiency today means automation which inherrently means fewer people involved. Mass employment industries - such as shipbuilding - and even electronics - we cannot compete. That said, I can see a really good case for rubbing Thatcher's nose in it and going back down the mines

 

As long as there's a clean/green use for the coal that comes out. It's not as if we have solved that problem but we do import tonnes of the stuff - so yes, power that's coal using but green would be good. Mining to power forgeries and the like is ancient history

 

What we are good at is things like McLaren or Morgan - question is how do we reproduce that in sufficient volume to power an economy and in a way that produces goods that people can afford/want to buy. McLaren, Sugden Amps, Brompton and the like are great, and british, but need to be cheaper to appeal to a market other than a few Russian oligarchs

 

Innovation should, in my view, go into recycling, re-using and alternatives to things like concrete, asphalt and the like. All countries need them but they are diminishing resources and energy intesive today

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We need to incentivise nuclear physics in universities and ensure that they are employed in a developing industry.

 

Its simple little things...that make a huge difference..

 

Also why not reduce the level of GCSE's

 

And concentrate on core areas...

 

D&T

English

Science

Maths

ICT

 

so more time is spent teaching these core areas and thus hopefully creating smarter kids

Edited by Owen1978

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Its simple little things...that make a huge difference..

 

Also why not reduce the level of GCSE's

 

And concentrate on core areas...

 

D&T

English

Science

Maths

ICT

 

so more time is spent teaching these core areas and thus hopefully creating smarter kids

 

Why should the arts be pushed out? Plenty of wealth is created by British artistic talent and a hell of a lot of tourism.

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Its simple little things...that make a huge difference..

 

Also why not reduce the level of GCSE's

 

And concentrate on core areas...

 

D&T

English

Science

Maths

ICT

 

so more time is spent teaching these core areas and thus hopefully creating smarter kids

That's what Gove is doing, but with the additon of a humanities subject.

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Its simple little things...that make a huge difference..

 

Also why not reduce the level of GCSE's

 

And concentrate on core areas...

 

D&T

English

Science

Maths

ICT

 

so more time is spent teaching these core areas and thus hopefully creating smarter kids

 

History, geography, modern languages?

 

You don't become 'smarter' because you decide to focus on the subjects you've mentioned there.

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This bit in particular i agree with. The country that gets this right 1st will become massively wealthy. The UK should be busting a gut to become the world leader in green energy, not just electric cars, renewable energies as well. I think a dedicated university speciailising in this area should be set up

 

The Irish are focussing on wave energy with this approach in mind. If you invent the optimal wave/tidal machine the same way that the Danes and Germans invented the optimal wind machine then you can build an industry over and above paying for your own energy needs. It's a race without a finish line right now though.

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That's what Gove is doing, but with the additon of a humanities subject.

 

One humanities subject? Does that mean that Geograhpy and history, etc are to be amalgamated?

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The issue is that we'll never mass produce anything - at least not in our lifetimes - as we are too pricey and it can be produced offshore.

 

Even if we managed to get anything off the ground it will no doubt be snapped up by some overseas equity group backed by foreign investors with profits ending up offshore/overseas.

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I also think the UK should concentrate in becoming a world leader in green energy

- Govt should have bought MG or created a new car company & get the best minds

from around the world to design a electric car thats actually works!

- Govt should also create a new energy company that is soley a nuclear power company

I have been working in this area a bit myself lately reagarding Green I.T.. We have contacted British company's that have made some great products, carbon neutrally and are very energy efffecient without dropping performance. When speaking to these manufacturers they generally found it hard to get funding for the work from the Government and then say it is very hard to persuade people to move away fom recognised suppliers such as Dell and HP.

Peterborough is the UKs Environmental Capital, however, it is primarily large sustainable energy manufacturers and suppliers from abroad that are looking to move there. Our Government is certainly missing a trick here with either their lack of support for the companies' doing it, or, helpng to promote the benefits of their wares. Their are some funds available, some loans (Which can be repaid by the savings made on usage), but in the main, there are charitable groups who 'advise' people on energy effieciency, associated products etc, rather than help fund or sponsor them, which is what the industry really needs.

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The original point was about the old addage that the economy is safe in Tory hands and not under Labour. A Tory representative on this very forum (Murph) came out with exactly this line when I challenged him on it recently. The truth is obviously very different, in the 80's and early 90's under the last Tory economic era, we had rampant inflation with periods of growth quickly followed by recession. 'We've inherited this mess' is the line every government trots out to justify the action they choose to undertake, but the truth is, the 'mess' we are in, is a matter of political opinion, not economic reality - we're not in the unchartered territory that some would have us believe. The economy is tanking and it's directly related to decisions made, not in the last 50 years, but those of the last 18 months.

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History, geography, modern languages?

 

You don't become 'smarter' because you decide to focus on the subjects you've mentioned there.

 

These non-core subjects can be taught at A-Level

 

Sometimes I have too much to say but cant be bothered to got into too much detail

 

Clever kids will always get good grades

The not so clever or the ones that have to work hard who normally might come out with C,D,E & F's

if they could have less subjects to study and concentrate on core areas those above grades might turn

into A,B & C's.

 

So what im trying to say is that having a more smarter workforce is good for the country

 

Even if we managed to get anything off the ground it will no doubt be snapped up by some overseas equity group backed by foreign investors with profits ending up offshore/overseas.

 

Thats why i said these key areas need to be govt owned

Edited by Owen1978

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These non-core subjects can be taught at A-Level

 

Sometimes I have too much to say but cant be bothered to got into too much detail

 

Clever kids will always get good grades

The not so clever or the ones that have to work hard who normally might come out with C,D,E & F's

if they could have less subjects to study and concentrate on core areas those above grades might turn

into A,B & C's.

 

So what im trying to say is that having a more smarter workforce is good for the country

 

Why are humanities 'non-core'?

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The original point was about the old addage that the economy is safe in Tory hands and not under Labour. A Tory representative on this very forum (Murph) came out with exactly this line when I challenged him on it recently. The truth is obviously very different, in the 80's and early 90's under the last Tory economic era, we had rampant inflation with periods of growth quickly followed by recession. 'We've inherited this mess' is the line every government trots out to justify the action they choose to undertake, but the truth is, the 'mess' we are in, is a matter of political opinion, not economic reality - we're not in the unchartered territory that some would have us believe. The economy is tanking and it's directly related to decisions made, not in the last 50 years, but those of the last 18 months.

 

I think you're spot on Mike, although I would suggest that the poor decisions go back maybe another year.

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Jaguar by Tata, Aston Martin was owned by ford, they still operate and employ within the UK.

 

 

And none of them are British. Any worthwhile revenues they earn flow back to the parent companies. Do you know what percentage of British manufacturing is foreign-owned?

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Thats why i said these key areas need to be govt owned

 

govt couldn't be trusted to organise a piss up in brewery let alone run a multi-national..

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The original point was about the old addage that the economy is safe in Tory hands and not under Labour. A Tory representative on this very forum (Murph) came out with exactly this line when I challenged him on it recently. The truth is obviously very different, in the 80's and early 90's under the last Tory economic era, we had rampant inflation with periods of growth quickly followed by recession. 'We've inherited this mess' is the line every government trots out to justify the action they choose to undertake, but the truth is, the 'mess' we are in, is a matter of political opinion, not economic reality - we're not in the unchartered territory that some would have us believe. The economy is tanking and it's directly related to decisions made, not in the last 50 years, but those of the last 18 months.

 

 

That's all fair enough, but what do you think is stopping the opposition from voicing alternative policies? EdM has just been up in front of the TUC to say 'yeah this public sector pensions business is slightly appalling, but, y'know, going on strike is very very naughty'.

 

Where's the brains?

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