Jump to content

'The economy is safe with the Tories'


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 27.7k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Gilps

    2300

  • smithdown

    1703

  • Swan Red

    1688

  • pipnasty

    1630

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Ugh. Ok so purely on Churchill and the British aspect of the Second World War (I really don't want to go over all of his imperialism, and racism, and pre-war stuff - this is torture enough as it

Centrists think the reason that centrism is failing is that people are no longer nice enough to try to find common ground with each other. They don’t seem to recognise that people are rejected centris

Woman calls out security forces trading tactics used to kill black and brown people. Labour left wing MP sacked for anti semitism.   It is a tap turned on when needed by those who want to suppr

Posted Images

1 hour ago, Gilps said:

Well we know what the policy positions are broadly because they haven’t changed significantly and indeed can’t change significantly without going through conference.

The last election shows though that having policies that can really make a difference are of secondary importance, if that, as far as the electorate are concerned. They are (or were at the last three elections) much more swayed by personalities, slogans and cutting through big issues. The only way Labour can get past that is by directly intervening positively at a local level and making a genuine difference there, build up from that base,    

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, charlie clown said:

The last election shows though that having policies that can really make a difference are of secondary importance, if that, as far as the electorate are concerned. They are (or were at the last three elections) much more swayed by personalities, slogans and cutting through big issues. The only way Labour can get past that is by directly intervening positively at a local level and making a genuine difference there, build up from that base,    

 

Don’t disagree and I’ve pointed out on here before that people saying “but policy x polls as being really popular with the public” is pretty meaningless given that it doesn’t really influence   how they vote. My post here was merely to counter the point that we don’t know what Labour’s policies are. On a substantive level we do because they haven’t changed.

1 hour ago, Jarg Armani said:

Less corrupt, more socialist labour councils. See Preston.

What sort of corruption are you talking about?

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Gilps said:

What sort of corruption are you talking about?

Usually to do with developments. Tower Hamlets I'm sure you know all about. Loads in Liverpool, sweetheart deals for favoured developers have led to the city's former business district becoming stag do crash pad central. I'm sure you could probably give me a list of 10 more if you thought about it.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Planning is a nightmare. It’s a quasi judicial process and councillors on planning committees are legally responsible for the decisions made. In practice, if applications by developers meet the legal requirements there is little scope for officers to recommend them not be passed and less scope for councillors to reject such recommendations. Whole system needs overhaul to allow genuine political decision making.

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Gilps said:

Planning is a nightmare. It’s a quasi judicial process and councillors on planning committees are legally responsible for the decisions made. In practice, if applications by developers meet the legal requirements there is little scope for officers to recommend them not be passed and less scope for councillors to reject such recommendations. Whole system needs overhaul to allow genuine political decision making.

Agreed. Planning is probably the thing which gets on my nerves the most, but I'm not sure it is the burning issue for most. Council politics seem equally corrupt and useless whoever is in charge in swing places like Chester and in strong Labour places like Liverpool. It's the same old suits shuffling around the circuit wherever you are.

The things that really cut through - local services, pot holes - are down to austerity cuts more than the local councils, but the council gets the blame. They are having a moan about this, and they might have a point, but they are often so crap and un Labour like in their values that they won't get many coming out to fight their corner.

I don't know what the answer is, except to organise and get better people into every level of the system. A bit of churn in the system would be useful at all levels too, people like Anderson are like limpets.

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Jarg Armani said:

Agreed. Planning is probably the thing which gets on my nerves the most, but I'm not sure it is the burning issue for most. Council politics seem equally corrupt and useless whoever is in charge in swing places like Chester and in strong Labour places like Liverpool. It's the same old suits shuffling around the circuit wherever you are.

The things that really cut through - local services, pot holes - are down to austerity cuts more than the local councils, but the council gets the blame. They are having a moan about this, and they might have a point, but they are often so crap and un Labour like in their values that they won't get many coming out to fight their corner.

I don't know what the answer is, except to organise and get better people into every level of the system. A bit of churn in the system would be useful at all levels too, people like Anderson are like limpets.

It was of course always the intention of making cuts to local government such a big chunk of austerity that people would blame their council for those cuts, not the government. Between those cuts and the ever increasing bill for statutory services in social care, the budget with which you can do anything else is tiny and the only decisions councillors can make is which of the services they don’t want to cut they have to cut anyway. Can’t be fun for any of them, I’m sure it’s not what any of them went into it for in the first place - certainly not on the a Labour side.

I do agree that you too often see the same old faces hanging around for decades and fresh blood and new ideas would always be welcome. Same as with any other organisation really. But as ever, the decisions are made by those who turn up to make them. If large parts of the Labour membership genuinely want different people selected as council candidates, they’ve got to (a) get people applying to be on selection panels, and (b) turn up in numbers to the shortlisting and selection meetings to vote for them.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Gilps said:

It was of course always the intention of making cuts to local government such a big chunk of austerity that people would blame their council for those cuts, not the government. Between those cuts and the ever increasing bill for statutory services in social care, the budget with which you can do anything else is tiny and the only decisions councillors can make is which of the services they don’t want to cut they have to cut anyway. Can’t be fun for any of them, I’m sure it’s not what any of them went into it for in the first place - certainly not on the a Labour side.

I do agree that you too often see the same old faces hanging around for decades and fresh blood and new ideas would always be welcome. Same as with any other organisation really. But as ever, the decisions are made by those who turn up to make them. If large parts of the Labour membership genuinely want different people selected as council candidates, they’ve got to (a) get people applying to be on selection panels, and (b) turn up in numbers to the shortlisting and selection meetings to vote for them.

I think they will. I've decided it's a better option than (c) leaving the party and shouting on twitter.

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Jarg Armani said:

I think they will. I've decided it's a better option than (c) leaving the party and shouting on twitter.

Which is sound. But it's not about staying in the party or not, it's about taking action when you stay in the party - and that's not happened in recent years. 

Locally here, there's plenty on the left who are critical of lots of our existing councillors.  But only a couple have ever bothered to stand for selection against them. And even when that's happened,  the rest haven't bothered to turn up to the branch shortlisting and selection meetings, so the same old handful who do make the decisions without them. These are not meetings attended by loads of people, so if there genuinely are significant numbers who want change and are motivated enough to commit a couple of evenings of their time, they can achieve it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Gilps said:

Which is sound. But it's not about staying in the party or not, it's about taking action when you stay in the party - and that's not happened in recent years. 

Locally here, there's plenty on the left who are critical of lots of our existing councillors.  But only a couple have ever bothered to stand for selection against them. And even when that's happened,  the rest haven't bothered to turn up to the branch shortlisting and selection meetings, so the same old handful who do make the decisions without them. These are not meetings attended by loads of people, so if there genuinely are significant numbers who want change and are motivated enough to commit a couple of evenings of their time, they can achieve it.

Have you seen what Peter McFadyen and co did in Frome? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think one of the unspoken aims of late stage capitalism is to make people so f***ing tired by the time they get home they don't have the energy to engage with mechanisms of change like unions or political parties. I know I struggle with that sometimes - do I go out or do I try and switch off and relax? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Bailo said:

I think one of the unspoken aims of late stage capitalism is to make people so f***ing tired by the time they get home they don't have the energy to engage with mechanisms of change like unions or political parties. I know I struggle with that sometimes - do I go out or do I try and switch off and relax? 

But why can't politics be invigorating rather than life-crushingly dull? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, pipnasty said:

But why can't politics be invigorating rather than life-crushingly dull? 

It's a hard slog a lot of the time. I don't see how it could be anything else really, it's a fight innit

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Bailo said:

It's a hard slog a lot of the time. I don't see how it could be anything else really, it's a fight innit

At our last meeting before lockdown, we had just under 100 people attend.  We meditated, we shared food and we all had a really good time. Our Borough Labour Party gets about 20 people at each meeting, the Green Party about 10 and both are dull as f***, awful places to be, proper slit your wrists stuff - it's no wonder nobody turns up. Since Covid, we've been the ones co-ordinating help for local residents and the political parties have done f*** all. 

Think I've posted this before but

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Bailo said:

Is politics one of those things, like charity, that ideally shouldn't exist? 

I'd need to think about that a bit more but, yeah, possibly. Almost certainly at a local level but I struggle when it comes to national politics, so I don't know what the answer is to that.

Covid was the perfect time for local political parties to get involved locally but, certainly round here, they were all conspicuous by their total and utter absence. So, we had to to do it - which, long term, is a good thing. I'm a member of the Green Party but I had to tell them to go and f*** themselves last week cos they are useless locally.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like they're trying to chip away at the powers of the devolved governments.

Welsh Government voted last year not to build a bypass of the M4 around Newport as it would be hugely destructive environmentally. UK Government making noises about building it themselves.

That's going to get very messy very quickly if they try it.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Tommok said:

Free parking for NHS staff to be scrapped already? 

 

 

Truly outrageous that NHS staff ever have to pay a single penny to park at their place of work

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Cobs said:

Truly outrageous that NHS staff ever have to pay a single penny to park at their place of work

Yep it's bloody ridiculous and it's expensive too. 

This seems nonsensical to go back on it now - how do they imagine that's going to play out.

You'd imagine another one of Johnson's U-turns could be on the cards 

Edited by Tommok
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Gethin said:

Looks like they're trying to chip away at the powers of the devolved governments.

Welsh Government voted last year not to build a bypass of the M4 around Newport as it would be hugely destructive environmentally. UK Government making noises about building it themselves.

That's going to get very messy very quickly if they try it.

 

They're increasingly Trumpian. Lie about something, do what you said you wouldn't, lie again when you are questioned about it. Cummings was a watershed. There seems to be no consequences to their lying and bulls*** so why would they stop now? 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Tommok said:

Yep. 

This seems nonsensical to go back on it now - how do they imagine that's going to play out.

You'd imagine another one of Johnson's U-turns could be on the cards 

This will be a recurring problem for them over the months and years that follow. It’s very hard to take things away from people once you’ve given them to them in the first place. Short term measures will either remain in place or cause them huge loss of goodwill when they’re removed.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Gilps said:

This will be a recurring problem for them over the months and years that follow. It’s very hard to take things away from people once you’ve given them to them in the first place. Short term measures will either remain in place or cause them huge loss of goodwill when they’re removed.

Has the govt justified why they're doing this re the NHS car parking? 

Maybe it's to help stimulate the Exploitative Car Park Charging sector at this difficult time 

There's bound to be a Tory minister on the board of one of those companies. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...