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How long before the fans can be expected to act?


growler

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Mr Shaq,

 

Well, I hear those arguments, I always have done. I get them, and I don't rule out the validity of the view that says Rafa had a turnaround in him. Conversely I don't get that it isn't conceivable that Rafa's decline may not have been checkable. It's not about what's fair on Rafa, it's about LFC. Last season looked more than a blip, and it was about more than difficult working conditions. To my mind he lost his players, and that showed in his failure to correct the slide.

 

I'm not overly interested in the ' Rafa gets us' side of things as I think he was as good at PR as Hodgson is bad, and ultimately I don't care who gets us or not if the results are bad.

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Mr Shaq,

 

Well, I hear those arguments, I always have done. I get them, and I don't rule out the validity of the view that says Rafa had a turnaround in him. Conversely I don't get that it isn't conceivable that Rafa's decline may not have been checkable. It's not about what's fair on Rafa, it's about LFC. Last season looked more than a blip, and it was about more than difficult working conditions. To my mind he lost his players, and that showed in his failure to correct the slide.

 

I'm not overly interested in the ' Rafa gets us' side of things as I think he was as good at PR as Hodgson is bad, and ultimately I don't care who gets us or not if the results are bad.

 

this, more than anything, is what it all boils down to

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Not sure what you mean Duncey.

 

I don't disagree with Rafa being sacked last summer, just his replacement.

 

what he is trying to say that he shouldn't have been sacked unless a better replacement was available and ready to take over

 

that's the reason most of were objecting to his sacking last season, because it was always likely that he will be replaced by a clown like Hodgson or O'neill

 

If the likes of Van Gaal, Cappelo , Maurinho, Lippi were ready to take over from Rafa, there would have been less of an objection to his sacking

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what he is trying to say that he shouldn't have been sacked unless a better replacement was available and ready to take over

 

that's the reason most of were objecting to his sacking last season, because it was always likely that he will be replaced by a clown like Hodgson or O'neill

 

If the likes of Van Gaal, Cappelo , Maurinho, Lippi were ready to take over from Rafa, there would have been less of an objection to his sacking

 

there was at least one better replacement. Dalglish. another potentially better in Pelligrini. and the board picked Hodgson.

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When the question was 'should we get rid of Rafa and trust our board to find a suitable replacement?' the answer should have been no.

 

It was a ridiculous gamble. We went all in with f*ck all.

 

you know what though, Rafa is doing f*** all at Inter that makes me think keeping him would have seen us improve. he'll likely be sacked before Hodgson, and they are as far off the top of Seria A as we are off the top of the prem.

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there was at least one better replacement. Dalglish. another potentially better in Pelligrini. and the board picked Hodgson.

 

Dalglish would be great in many ways.. I'd love to give hima trial but the previous owners dont like it and the new ones dont seemt o either so there has to be something there... either that or they are takiong their time to make the big decisions... remember , this is all new to them and if this si the case then even though it'll frustrate me to supernova at times, it's a great trait for them to have.

 

you know what though, Rafa is doing f*** all at Inter that makes me think keeping him would have seen us improve. he'll likely be sacked before Hodgson, and they are as far off the top of Seria A as we are off the top of the prem.

 

Personally I want Rafa back.. I know I'll get slated for dreaming... ya, he had his failings but you know.. when i think of 2005, I don;t just think about the players on the pitch. I think about the rivalry between Rafa and Mourinho.. I think of how our team were under dogs against Leverkusen. I had a good laugh when we then went on to beat the proper teams after that.

 

Under dogs against Leverkusen?... Rafa , one way or the other put us on the map.

 

Torres came here cause of him, Reina came here cause of him..and even though Alonso left because of him.. he also would never have put on a Liverpool jersey in the first place if it wasn't for him.

 

I do think we'd need Pako back though. Rafa cant do everything and he needs a man between himself and the players... as you know Yosi left saying that Rafa never communicated with him. This is of course not a problem that Mourinho has... however, I rate both managers above almostall other, regardless of Rafa's situation at Inter now....

 

Inter are a team who fire managers on a whim.

 

Does anyone else want Rafa back?

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there was at least one better replacement. Dalglish. another potentially better in Pelligrini. and the board picked Hodgson.

 

I dont think any of them are better than Rafa

If you sack rafa then I would have gone for Pelligrini. But it still would have been a step down and that was the complaint

 

Didn't do anyone any good apart from hodgson then.

 

And he is a c*nt as all agree.

 

Proper balls up.

 

And that is the correct answer. anyone want to disagree?

some still want to justify their viewpoints, but this is the crux of the matter

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Time for action. Werner and Henry on phone in on Monday. Every call needs to be about Roy. There must be no doubt about how we feel.

 

All calls should be disguised to talk about plans for the future the stadium transfers and other Safe topics and then when on air let's go for it.

 

Leave no doubt as to what we want. They claim they are learning and we are the most knowledgable

Fans in the world allegedly.

 

Let's pull together some questions to make the point.

 

1. Why are we persersvering with a manager that the players ands fans do not want and is clearly taking us away from our goals?

2. Torres stats under rafa and Roy are startling as are many others. Away records for example. Are stats important and if so why is Roy still in charge?

3. Do you agree with Roy that we are a mid table team that should not be considere for the top prizes? If not why is he still our manager?

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Good call Growler. Lets tweet them en masse also.

 

NESV said they would listen but so did G&H

 

NESV promised success but so did G&H

 

Personally, I see little difference between both sets of owners at the minute. People will obviously pull me u on this as I'm bursting a few bubbles but what have NESV done exactly? It could easily be argued that the removed debt (fair play) but have left themselves with nothing to work with without dipping into Red Sox coffers which will cause a storm.

 

NESV need to put up or shut up. If this manager is allowed to remain, this season will be such a f*** up that we will most likely regress in the following ways:

 

1. Good players will want to leave

 

2. Good players will not want to join.

 

3. Confidence will be smashed

 

4. The mid table mentality or top four being an achievement will be institutionalised.

 

This is dire and we as fans need to start voting with our pound until things are the way they should be. It's the only thing business type owners will understand.

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Not sure what you mean Duncey.

 

I don't disagree with Rafa being sacked last summer, just his replacement.

In my roundabout way, I'm saying this - the decision to sack Rafa and find a new manager should have been considered as one single process. Instead it was considered as two - get rid of Rafa, then find a replacement. DH and a few others seemed to consider that because they agreed with part 1 of the two part question, then it was the right decision. I'm saying it should never have been a two-part process. It wasn't when we hired Rafa.

 

In a situation where it became "Get rid of Rafa, no matter who we can get in", we were always liable to end up with a 3rd rate replacement, particularly given the owners didn't want someone who demanded big money (c.f. with Hodgson's self-proclaimed "talent" for getting the best out of the current squad).

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In my roundabout way, I'm saying this - the decision to sack Rafa and find a new manager should have been considered as one single process. Instead it was considered as two - get rid of Rafa, then find a replacement. DH and a few others seemed to consider that because they agreed with part 1 of the two part question, then it was the right decision. I'm saying it should never have been a two-part process. It wasn't when we hired Rafa.

 

In a situation where it became "Get rid of Rafa, no matter who we can get in", we were always liable to end up with a 3rd rate replacement, particularly given the owners didn't want someone who demanded big money (c.f. with Hodgson's self-proclaimed "talent" for getting the best out of the current squad).

 

 

Whilst I'd agree that you should always have a manager lined up to replace the one you intend to sack, I'm not sure we can say for certain that wasn't the case. Just because hardly any of us wanted Hodgson, doesn't mean to say he wasn't the board's preferred choice. I'd imagine a shortlist of candidates was drawn up, and they're availability checked, before Rafa was sacked. I honestly believe they appointed the man they wanted. Who "they" are is open to speculation (or educated guesswork, some combination of CP/JC/SG/SL), and whilst it was as poor a decision then as now, I don't believe for a moment they started the recruitment process after the sacking.

 

We can only judge on what is in the public domain, and Purslow getting an agent to sound out Hodgson is never going to be public information.

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The Utrecht game is a dead rubber. Even if we lose 20,000 - 0 we still finish top.

 

Time for the Dalglish chants and the Hodgson Out ones to start.

 

Henry will be at the game as well. Give him grief on the phones and in the ground.

 

I agree. I'm always a bit reluctant to tell those who are at any given match how to behave, but the game on Wednesday night is the perfect opportunity for the fans to make their voices heard.

 

The game is dead, the result is pointless.

 

In a dream world, the fans fully rebel on Wednesday evening, Roy gets the sack and we go into the Fulham match with Kenny in charge (until the end of the season or some such) and we can all begin again.

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If the fans are not willing to start the 'Hodgson out' chants now, I dread to think what it will take.

 

If the match-going fans start to boo Roy, it would probably prompt the owners to take some action ... However, that is a very dangerous game ...

 

I have already noted the example of VfB Stuttgart ... In 2007, they have won the Bundesliga under Armin Veh ... However, the next season was a disappointment, as they finished 6th, and the fans have turned on Veh, who was sacked in November 2008 ... Since then, they have changed 4 managers, and they are sitting firmly in the Bundesliga relegation zone at the moment ...

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If the match-going fans start to boo Roy, it would probably prompt the owners to take some action ... However, that is a very dangerous game ...

 

I have already noted the example of VfB Stuttgart ... In 2007, they have won the Bundesliga under Armin Veh ... However, the next season was a disappointment, as they finished 6th, and the fans have turned on Veh, who was sacked in November 2008 ... Since then, they have changed 4 managers, and they are sitting firmly in the Bundesliga relegation zone at the moment ...

 

Hardly comparable is it? We can hardly get much worse than we are, we spent the early part of the season in the relegation zone, and now only 10 days from Christmas, we're still only two defeats away from it. We aren't talking about suddenly turning on a league winning manager. He is the worst manager in Liverpool's history, and quite possibly the worst in the league.

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If the match-going fans start to boo Roy, it would probably prompt the owners to take some action ... However, that is a very dangerous game ...

 

I have already noted the example of VfB Stuttgart ... In 2007, they have won the Bundesliga under Armin Veh ... However, the next season was a disappointment, as they finished 6th, and the fans have turned on Veh, who was sacked in November 2008 ... Since then, they have changed 4 managers, and they are sitting firmly in the Bundesliga relegation zone at the moment ...

I've come to the conclusion that Veh fluked that to a degree. He's been hopeless every where else.

Plus Stuttgart tend to skim their squad too much hence why they've brought Fredi Bobic in.

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Hardly comparable is it? We can hardly get much worse than we are, we spent the early part of the season in the relegation zone, and now only 10 days from Christmas, we're still only two defeats away from it. We aren't talking about suddenly turning on a league winning manager. He is the worst manager in Liverpool's history, and quite possibly the worst in the league.

 

I am not comparing Veh to Hodgson ... I am comparing him to Rafa ... He has also left after a disappointing season, achieving a respectable result the season before ... However, once their Board entered the vicious circle of asking the fans about the fate of the manager, they have changed 4 managers in the last 2 years ... Sometimes, it is for the best that the strategic decisions (and the sacking of the manager is certainly such a decision) to be made by competent people, and not by the fans ...

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I am not comparing Veh to Hodgson ... I am comparing him to Rafa ... He has also left after a disappointing season, achieving a respectable result the season before ... However, once their Board entered the vicious circle of asking the fans about the fate of the manager, they have changed 4 managers in the last 2 years ... Sometimes, it is for the best that the strategic decisions (and the sacking of the manager is certainly such a decision) to be made by competent people, and not by the fans ...

 

Only most of the fans didn't want Rafa gone. An incompetent board sacked him against the fans wishes.

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I am not comparing Veh to Hodgson ... I am comparing him to Rafa ... He has also left after a disappointing season, achieving a respectable result the season before ... However, once their Board entered the vicious circle of asking the fans about the fate of the manager, they have changed 4 managers in the last 2 years ... Sometimes, it is for the best that the strategic decisions (and the sacking of the manager is certainly such a decision) to be made by competent people, and not by the fans ...

But currently the decision to keep him is being made by people you have acknowledged elsewhere as being incompetent.

 

It's OK for these lads to make a mistake and it is OK we acknowledge they have made one.

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