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Tactically things looking better


David Hodgson

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We invited pressure on though, that is never a good thing, and a midfield of Ramires, Mikel and Zhirkov is not the same as Ballack Essien and Lampard. They were absolutely s*** in the middle of the park all game (for a Chelsea side), we bossed them in teh first half, then sat right back and invited them on in the second. We were lucky to get away with that.

 

Tried to make this point yesterday, noone else could fathom this.

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It's a bit knee jerk to judge Hodgson after the last 3 games, two of which we'd generally always win anyway.

 

Yesterday was a good result but it was a game that suited Hodgson, getting the goals and then playing deep and not allowing any space. I'm not taking any credit away from him but it would be foolish to suddenly think he's all of a sudden mastered managing us.

 

He needs a consistent November, picking up results and making sure that the team press high and dominate games.

 

We have the team to do well in this league, we shouldn't get carried away against a Chelsea who have started to struggle in some games this season. With the players we have we should be winning games.

 

I think the tactics are still poor and the second half we spent chasing shadows and relying on Reina and last ditch tackles from the defenders.

Meireles wide right is a waste

 

Still think it'll be a mid to low table finish if we stick with Hodgson as manager. We have the players who will win games no matter who is in charge. The important part is if we can trust this manager to buy others of a similar calibre and have the nous to take the team forward.

 

Still a massive No from me.

 

We invited pressure on though, that is never a good thing, and a midfield of Ramires, Mikel and Zhirkov is not the same as Ballack Essien and Lampard. They were absolutely s*** in the middle of the park all game (for a Chelsea side), we bossed them in teh first half, then sat right back and invited them on in the second. We were lucky to get away with that.

 

 

Is was that bad we were allowing Terry to stroll into midfield to make up the numbers.

 

Like you said, our midfield was the better of the two and yet made to look significantly inferior

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We invited pressure on though, that is never a good thing, and a midfield of Ramires, Mikel and Zhirkov is not the same as Ballack Essien and Lampard. They were absolutely s*** in the middle of the park all game (for a Chelsea side), we bossed them in teh first half, then sat right back and invited them on in the second. We were lucky to get away with that.

 

Exactly, and thats why I wont change my mind about Roy...the first half was refreshing and good to see but the second was standard Roy, sit back, hope for the best and try to protect the lead. Chelsea were totally at sea yesterday, they were sloppy in posession, struggled to put any type of pressure together in the first half. They were always going to come out fighting in the second but sitting back just helped them get there confidence, passing and movement back. We were lucky not to concede and if they had got one they probably would have gone on to get a draw or win.

 

We are at our best when pressing the midfield, maintaining a higher line and forcing errors. That has been the basis of our recent change in results, the first 6 games were standard Roy start to finish and we all know how bad they turned out.

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No it wasn't. Both had us pressuring far, far higher up the pitch. The latter put a premium on possession as well, something we've given up willingly at times this season.

 

That's an absolute myth. Can't remember which game it was against Chelsea but Benitez said after the game that the gameplan was to give them the ball, because they were much more dangerous when they were counterattacking.

 

Mourinho used the same tactic in the Euro final against Barca last year.

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That's an absolute myth. Can't remember which game it was against Chelsea but Benitez said after the game that the gameplan was to give them the ball, because they were much more dangerous when they were counterattacking.

 

Mourinho used the same tactic in the Euro final against Barca last year.

 

Its really not a myth. Its pretty obvious.

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That's an absolute myth. Can't remember which game it was against Chelsea but Benitez said after the game that the gameplan was to give them the ball, because they were much more dangerous when they were counterattacking.

 

Mourinho used the same tactic in the Euro final against Barca last year.

 

it's fine and makes sense as a game plan against certain opposition. we did similar with some success against arsenal on the opening day. my problem is if, as it has appeared for much of the time this season, it's a philosophy. it's no good getting results against chelsea and arsenal, it you're getting beat off blackpool, northampton, everton etc. because you're struggling to take the initiative in games. as you've said there are elements of mourinho's tactical approach in this, and he does it very well, but against weaker opposition his sides are absolutely capable and prepared to take the agressive, front foot option. routinely routing muck has been the biggest issue for us over the last 20 years, whether under evans, houllier, rafa or, now, hodgson, we've always been a club that has had it in us to get results against the best sides. but it's the difference between pretty regular cup success, and the long wait for a title in my opinion.

 

rafa got closer than most in his approach, last season notwithstanding. which was why i was against his sacking.

Edited by yellow jumper
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I think the last few games prove that if you pick attacking players you win games. So much negative football over the last 12 months from Rafa and even worse in Roy's early days; its nice to see us put teams out with effectively only the back four and one defensive minded midfielder (Lucas who has been absolutely outstanding).

 

Two strikers, Mereiles, Gerrard and Maxi - its a much more balanced side for me and the results are there to see. If Hodgson is learning then fair play to him, he may well still not be the right man for the job but he has certainly earned a stay of execution. It has been a very positive couple of weeks for the club, enjoying it a lot.

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I think the last few games prove that if you pick attacking players you win games. So much negative football over the last 12 months from Rafa and even worse in Roy's early days; its nice to see us put teams out with effectively only the back four and one defensive minded midfielder (Lucas who has been absolutely outstanding).

 

what if both teams pick attacking players? Do they both win?

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He wasn't just judged on his performances on the pitch though. He was also judged on his poor signings , laughable press conferences and inability to defend or praise our players. Throw in some of the worst football at the club for 20 years and he was rightly judged.

............make that the worst football at the club for 50 years. I can vouch for it

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I'm not convinced it is myself - at least not in the short term. 4-4-2 looks a better bet based on the personnel we have at the moment.

 

I think it's more to do with the dodgy fullbacks and tactics. 4-3-3 just leaves us more vulnerable at present, especially under Hodgson.

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No it wasn't. Both had us pressuring far, far higher up the pitch. The latter put a premium on possession as well, something we've given up willingly at times this season.

 

 

Nope. Houllier liked us to sit deeper, and won us a treble from that base. Rafa moved us higher up the pitch, but last season when trouble struck we dropped deeper. Not sure if that was due to confidence or by design. Rafa did not put a particular 'premium' on possession. He put a premium on pressing high up, but his game plan was generally pretty direct and economical (as was Houllier's). The Roy Evans teams put more emphasis on 'keep ball' than both Houllier's and Rafa's. In fact I'm seeing more signs with Hodgson of a game plan that involves keeping the ball and building up more patiently. Not that we've seen huge evidence of the effectiveness of this plan yet, granted.

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:-) I think you should try and go a whole day without mentioning Rafa in any of your posts. He's gone now, let him go.*

 

 

* no specific reason for replying to this specific post, it could have been a reply to any of your posts recently :-D

 

In all seriousness, it's pointless to think that at this stage that this forum is going to function as a Rafa-free zone. I wasn't the one who started threads like 'Rafa vs Roy' or set polls up about 'should we get Rafa back?' If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. :)

 

surely if we only have 1 striker, and 4 cm, then a 433 makes sense?

 

 

I'm not sure what the diffference is between 433, and 451, or 4411. In all those scenarios one of the midfielders effectively plays as a second striker at times (at which point the formation starts to look a lot like a 442 ;) ).

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