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Dr Kelly


Tosh

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So why was the grass greener in one part of the field than another? It must have been a conspiracy and until someone produces the Shergar, Elvis, Lord Lucan and the Lindbergh baby all having a jacuzzi on Mars, I'm not going to believe it.

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So why was the grass greener in one part of the field than another? It must have been a conspiracy and until someone produces the Shergar, Elvis, Lord Lucan and the Lindbergh baby all having a jacuzzi on Mars, I'm not going to believe it.

It was, and is, definitely legitimate to raise questions about David Kelly's death. The Hutton inquiry was nakedly biased, and there's no reason why we should trust its conclusions about Kelly any more than about the bbc or the government. Of the two causes of death, the concentration of painkillers was not high enough for a fatal dose, and the severing of the ulnar artery is apparently vanishly unlikely to cause sufficient blood loss, let alone with a blunt knife. The issue of the lack blood in the surroundings seems to have been resolved with the new information, although given the unlikely circumstances it seems that some steps which should have been taken weren't. I haven't seen any comment on whether the new information about the wounds is useful.

 

Ultimately the issue of due process for one individual should not have been mixed up with the day-to-day political process of pressure, obfuscation and manipulation. They should hold the inquiry that would have occurred in any other circumstance. One of the pathologists who signed the letter raising concerns suggested that an open verdict would be appropriate on the evidence provided.

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It was, and is, definitely legitimate to raise questions about David Kelly's death. The Hutton inquiry was nakedly biased, and there's no reason why we should trust its conclusions about Kelly any more than about the bbc or the government. Of the two causes of death, the concentration of painkillers was not high enough for a fatal dose, and the severing of the ulnar artery is apparently vanishly unlikely to cause sufficient blood loss, let alone with a blunt knife. The issue of the lack blood in the surroundings seems to have been resolved with the new information, although given the unlikely circumstances it seems that some steps which should have been taken weren't. I haven't seen any comment on whether the new information about the wounds is useful.

 

Ultimately the issue of due process for one individual should not have been mixed up with the day-to-day political process of pressure, obfuscation and manipulation. They should hold the inquiry that would have occurred in any other circumstance. One of the pathologists who signed the letter raising concerns suggested that an open verdict would be appropriate on the evidence provided.

There's absolutely no evidence that it was anything other than suicide. But you want it to be so, so it would confirm your paranoid ramblings. Time to get down off the grassy knoll.

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There's absolutely no evidence that it was anything other than suicide. But you want it to be so, so it would confirm your paranoid ramblings. Time to get down off the grassy knoll.

 

So Campbell and Blair didn't kill him but just drove him to suicide? Well that's alright then.

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So Campbell and Blair didn't kill him but just drove him to suicide? Well that's alright then.

Spoke to a scumbag Tory journalist, broke the law, lost himself his job and generous pension, and lied to Parliament about it all.

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Spoke to a scumbag Tory journalist, broke the law, lost himself his job and generous pension, and lied to Parliament about it all.

 

Are you saying that he should've just kept his mouth shut even though he knew that our government and the Bush administration were at best exaggerating, and at worst down right lying to the World with their reasons for putting BritIsh and American troops lives at risk - as well as the couple of hundred thousand Iraqis that have killed and injured?

 

The government asked him to share his experise with them, when he didn't give him the answers they were looking for they went after him big time. Do you really think he killed himself because he'd lost his pension, or could it have been that he felt intolerable pressure put on him by Blair and Campbell and caved in?

 

If you were in his positon, what would you have done - kept quiet and held on to your job or tried your best to get the facts out there and have a chance of preventing a war that costs so many lives?

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Are you saying that he should've just kept his mouth shut even though he knew that our government and the Bush administration were at best exaggerating, and at worst down right lying to the World with their reasons for putting BritIsh and American troops lives at risk - as well as the couple of hundred thousand Iraqis that have killed and injured?

 

The government asked him to share his experise with them, when he didn't give him the answers they were looking for they went after him big time. Do you really think he killed himself because he'd lost his pension, or could it have been that he felt intolerable pressure put on him by Blair and Campbell and caved in?

 

If you were in his positon, what would you have done - kept quiet and held on to your job or tried your best to get the facts out there and have a chance of preventing a war that costs so many lives?

He didn't speak to Gilligan until the war was over. So no chance of preventing it.

 

If you leak stuff to the press, break the law, and lie to Parliament, you better make sure you have a strategy to cope with the possibility of getting found out.

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There's absolutely no evidence that it was anything other than suicide. But you want it to be so, so it would confirm your paranoid ramblings. Time to get down off the grassy knoll.

All the qualifiers you've highlighted are used when describing expert opinion. I'm hardly going to make unequivocal statements about pathology, although you seem to be happy to do so.

 

He didn't speak to Gilligan until the war was over. So no chance of preventing it.

 

If you leak stuff to the press, break the law, and lie to Parliament, you better make sure you have a strategy to cope with the possibility of getting found out.

The law in Britain on whistleblowing is a nonsense, it has no moral authority. And your implication that he deserved what he got is abhorrent.

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Spoke to a scumbag Tory journalist, broke the law, lost himself his job and generous pension, and lied to Parliament about it all.

 

he should have just got on the celebrity train a la Jeffrey Archer or Neil Hamilton

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All the qualifiers you've highlighted are used when describing expert opinion. I'm hardly going to make unequivocal statements about pathology, although you seem to be happy to do so.

 

The law in Britain on whistleblowing is a nonsense, it has no moral authority. And your implication that he deserved what he got is abhorrent.

Ah! The amateur's get-out! You seem to think you are qualified to doubt eminently qualified pathologists, though. What I did is to say that I bow to the qualified pathologists. You refuse to accept their statements?

 

I never made such an implication, by the way. You may have made the inference. That's up to you.

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Ah! The amateur's get-out! You seem to think you are qualified to doubt eminently qualified pathologists, though. What I did is to say that I bow to the qualified pathologists. You refuse to accept their statements?

 

I never made such an implication, by the way. You may have made the inference. That's up to you.

 

shall I put 'Campbellesque' or 'Campbellian'?

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He didn't speak to Gilligan until the war was over. So no chance of preventing it.

 

If you leak stuff to the press, break the law, and lie to Parliament, you better make sure you have a strategy to cope with the possibility of getting found out.

 

Politicians do all of the above as routine - I don't for one minute believe that kelly was murdered by either the British or American secret service(s), his death would obviously draw more attention to his arguments and if they had left even the tiniest piece of evidence it would've brought down the Government (definately ours, at any rate). Blair/Campbell wouldn't have known how Kelly was going to react to the pressure they put on him but in my opinion whilst yes, he lied to Parliament, Blairs lies (or exaggeration, if you like) were told knowing without doubt that many,many lives would be lost as a result - both in Iraq and Afghanistan as a result of British forces/resources being spread too thinly.

 

On a wider note, I fail to see how regime change can be justified by saying that Saddam was "evil" when it was well known what Mugabe was doing in Zimbabwe and the only action taken was Nasser Hussein being told not to shake his hand when England played there. Why wasn't N.Korea invaded when we know that the dear leader let millions die of starvation? Why didn't China get challenged harder over their human rights record? It's a rhetorical question because I have a pretty good idea as to why - oil, smash the f*ck out of a country then charge them billions to "help them rebuild" - what were the figures? Out of $9.5 billion raised in Iraqi oil revenues since the fall of saddam $8 billion has gone missing into the pockets of American contractors.

Edited by The walters step over
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