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Europe: last bastion of freedom!


anfield

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For all the finger pointing and snooty comments about American attitudes towards Islam on this forum, the latest Pew survey indicates that 82% of the French support the Burqa ban. The majority of those surveyed in Germany, Britain and Spain were also in favor of the ban as per the Pew Global organisation. In contrast, 2 out of 3 Americans were against the ban...........

 

 

http://pewglobal.org/2010/07/08/widespread-support-for-banning-full-islamic-veil-in-western-europe/

 

Most Americans Disapprove

Widespread Support For Banning Full Islamic Veil in Western Europe

On July 13, members of the lower house of the French parliament are expected to vote on a bill that would make it illegal for Muslim women to wear full veils – those that cover all of the face except the eyes – in public places. A survey by the Pew Research Center’s Global Attitudes Project, conducted April 7 to May 8, finds that the French public overwhelmingly endorses this measure; 82% approve of a ban on Muslim women wearing full veils in public, including schools, hospitals and government offices, while just 17% disapprove. 1

 

Majorities in Germany (71%), Britain (62%) and Spain (59%) would also support a similar ban in their own countries. In contrast, most Americans would oppose such a measure; 65% say they would disapprove of a ban on Muslim women wearing full veils in public places compared with 28% who say they would approve.

 

In the four Western European countries surveyed as well as in the U.S., support for a ban on Muslim women wearing a full veil is more pronounced among those who are age 55 and older, although majorities across all age groups in France, Germany and Britain favor a ban. For example, 91% of French respondents age 55 and older approve of restrictions on Muslim women covering their face, compared with 81% of those ages 35 to 54 and 72% of those younger than 35.

 

In Spain, where 70% in the older group and a narrower majority (55%) of those ages 35 to 54 favor a ban on full veils, younger respondents are closely divided; 49% of those ages 18 to 34 approve of such measures and 47% disapprove. In the U.S., about one-third (35%) of those in the oldest age group say they would welcome a ban on veils that cover the whole face except the eyes, while 28% of those ages 35 to 54 and just 22% of those younger than 35 say the same.

 

Opinions about banning Muslim women from wearing a full veil do not vary along gender lines in any of the five countries where the question was asked. In France, Britain and the U.S., views on this matter are also similar across education and income groups. However, in Spain and Germany, those in higher income groups are more likely than the less affluent to approve of such a ban; for example, a slim majority (51%) of low-income respondents in Spain favor a ban on full veils, compared with 62% of those in the middle-income range and 68% of those with high incomes.

 

Ideologically, those on the right in France, Britain and Germany are more likely than those on the left to approve of a ban on women wearing the full Islamic veil in public places, but majorities across the political spectrum in these countries endorse such a ban. In France, 87% of those on the right support prohibiting women from wearing full veils in public, and 75% of those on the political left agree. Spain is the only Western European country surveyed where those on both ends of the ideology scale express nearly identical views; 59% of those on the right and 57% of those on the left approve of a ban on Muslim women wearing veils that cover the whole face. Ideological differences are also insignificant in the U.S.

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'Ideologically, those on the right in France, Britain and Germany are more likely than those on the left to approve of a ban on women wearing the full Islamic veil in public places, but majorities across the political spectrum in these countries endorse such a ban.'

 

No they don't - the majority political view is very much against a ban - even our own Tory party is against such a thing.

 

2 out of 3 Americans against a ban, eh? How many in the South and midwest were asked I wonder?

 

france has been heading further and further right for years though. as has most of europe hasn't it? not sure what comparing european views with american ones really gains anyway.

Sarkozy and crew are mentalists that way - the French socialists have already said if/when they get in (maybe sooner than they thought given the recent exposé of Sarkozy's love of the stuffed manilla envelope) they'll repeal the restrictions already in place.

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'Ideologically, those on the right in France, Britain and Germany are more likely than those on the left to approve of a ban on women wearing the full Islamic veil in public places, but majorities across the political spectrum in these countries endorse such a ban.'

 

No they don't - the majority political view is very much against a ban - even our own Tory party is against such a thing.

 

2 out of 3 Americans against a ban, eh? How many in the South and midwest were asked I wonder?

 

 

Sarkozy and crew are mentalists that way - the French socialists have already said if/when they get in (maybe sooner than they thought given the recent exposé of Sarkozy's love of the stuffed manilla envelope) they'll repeal the restrictions already in place.

This is a poll of people not parties, obviously their polling infomation must show a majority in favour of a ban from those who identify as left wing as well as right wing.

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Not something I'd often accuse you of Des, but that is a masterpiece of understatement and offensive to c*nts everywhere.

 

Something worth noting too - Sarkozy and his party (who are beginning to make murmourings of a palace coup) are not indicative of overall French popular opinion or views anymore than Cameron and his party are similarly of British views.

 

This is a poll of people not parties, obviously their polling infomation must show a majority in favour of a ban from those who identify as left wing as well as right wing.

So if this is true, show me the stats, percentages, demographics when and where the polls were conducted and by whom - how representative was the sample, how closed were the questions - otherwise it's worthless.

Edited by fyds
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Ask the pew research centre, (whatever that is) also provide equal ammounts of evidence for your conclusion.

My conclusion (on the European front) is based on experience, regular travel and work in Europe over fifty years and family in three different European countries - no closed questions, no surveys - conversation and actually living there - as do many of our posters who would equally tell you it's crap.

 

The Pew Research Centre is a political think tank based in Washington DC - work it out.

Edited by fyds
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My conclusion (on the European front) is based on experience, regular travel and work in Europe over fifty years and family in three different European countries - no closed questions, no surveys - conversation and actually living there - as do many of our posters who would equally tell you it's crap.

 

The Pew Research Centre is a political think tank based in Washington DC - work it out.

 

The Pew research center has many times in the past put out surveys that painted Americans in a poor light. Its a liberal thinktank. Also, as far as mosque construction, what about the ridiculous ban on minarets in Switzerland?

 

My conclusion (on the European front) is based on experience, regular travel and work in Europe over fifty years and family in three different European countries - no closed questions, no surveys - conversation and actually living there - as do many of our posters who would equally tell you it's crap.

 

The Pew Research Centre is a political think tank based in Washington DC - work it out.

 

 

Maybe the circles you move in are not as representative of the general population as you would like to believe?

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My conclusion (on the European front) is based on experience, regular travel and work in Europe over fifty years and family in three different European countries - no closed questions, no surveys - conversation and actually living there - as do many of our posters who would equally tell you it's crap.

 

The Pew Research Centre is a political think tank based in Washington DC - work it out.

So no more then anecdotal then, and this Pew Centre may be a political think tank but their polling information is not counter to the recent opinion polls i've seen on the BBC regarding the British public attitude to a ban on the Burkah.

 

It doesn't suprise me that the majority of western europe may support a ban on the burkah, the rise of nationalist parties in France, denmark are indicative of large sections populations unease with Islam.

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So no more then anecdotal then, and this Pew Centre may be a political think tank but their polling information is not counter to the recent opinion polls i've seen on the BBC regarding the British public attitude to a ban on the Burkah.

 

It doesn't suprise me that the majority of western europe may support a ban on the burkah, the rise of nationalist parties in France, denmark are indicative of large sections populations unease with Islam.

 

but would banning it just drive it underground?

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I'm surprised France isn't using Saudi Arabia's treatment of Christians more as a way of justifying their arguement. Whether it would be right or wrong to. They are forbidden to openly to practise their faith. Bibles, crosses etc.. are banned. Non-muslims can't even enter Medina or Mecca and clergymen can't even enter the country. Add to that tales of migrant workers being forced to convert. That is potentially a much worse case of opression than what is currently happening in France.

 

I'm not gonna go down the stupid what if that was the other way round arguement, but wouldn't be surprised if France did.

Edited by Sion
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I'm surprised France isn't using Saudi Arabia's treatment of Christians more as a way of justifying their arguement. Whether it would be right or wrong to. They are forbidden to openly to practise their faith. Bibles, crosses etc.. are banned. Non-muslims can't even enter Medina or Mecca and clergymen can't even enter the country. Add to that tales of migrant workers being forced to convert. That is potentially a much worse case of opression than what is currently happening in France.

 

I'm not gonna go down the stupid what if that was the other way round arguement, but wouldn't be surprised if France did.

 

Maybe so but it is hard to discuss human rights, freedom of speech/movement/religion about a country that officially don't give a f***. I think everyone holds France to a much higher standard, in fact in many areas such as these France in particular have many times in history been at the forefront.

 

Personally, there is something about hiding your face in public places and even more so in public situations (schools, justice etc) that I am against. On a purely liberal ground it is wrong to ban it, but I don't like the occurrence very much.

 

This is very much separate from France's treatment of Romani people mind.

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